April 7, 2025

It Started Running: Lizzie Cyr/Famous 5 Part 1

It Started Running: Lizzie Cyr/Famous 5 Part 1
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The fascinating case of Lizzie Cyr begins with a simple arrest for "vagrancy" in 1917 Calgary and transforms into a landmark legal battle that would permanently alter women's rights in Canada.

When Lizzie Cyr, a 29-year-old woman of First Nations and European heritage, found herself homeless and accepted temporary lodging from an acquaintance named John James Ryan, she unknowingly stepped into legal history. After Ryan paid her for sex, claimed she infected him with gonorrhea, and attempted to blackmail her for medicine money, Cyr found herself arrested and standing before one of Canada's first female magistrates, Alice Jameson.

Enter John McKinley Cameron, Cyr's eccentric lawyer known for representing society's most marginalized people. With his trademark mismatched suits and sometimes rubber boots, Cameron skillfully exposed Ryan's hypocrisy during cross-examination, revealing that Ryan regularly visited sex workers and had contracted gonorrhea before. Despite this compelling defense, Magistrate Jameson abruptly sentenced Cyr to six months hard labor without allowing her to testify.

What happened next would change Canadian legal history forever. Rather than simply appealing the verdict, Cameron pursued a bold strategy – challenging Jameson's very right to serve as a magistrate on the grounds that women couldn't legally hold such positions. This challenge reached the Alberta Supreme Court, where Justice Stewart declared "in our province and in our time there is no legal reason to disqualify women from holding public office," making Alberta the first Canadian province to officially recognize women as legal persons with the right to hold public office.

While Lizzie Cyr disappeared from historical records after serving her sentence, her case became crucial in establishing women's legal personhood – a concept that would be further developed in the "Famous Five" case detailed in next week's episode. Join us for the conclusion of this unexpected legal journey that helped secure fundamental rights for Canadian women.


The Person Behind the Persons Case Written by Sarah Burton

http://canadashistory.ca/explore/women/the-person-behind-the-persons-case




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00:16 - Meet the History Buffoons

01:05 - Beer Tasting and Brewery Talk

06:50 - Introducing Lizzie Sear's Story

10:42 - The Arrest and Ryan's Accusations

17:44 - The Courtroom Confrontation

28:07 - Challenging a Female Magistrate's Authority

38:44 - The Legal Ruling and Historical Impact

46:36 - Setting Up Part Two and Wrap-Up

WEBVTT

00:00:16.053 --> 00:00:19.216
Oh, hey there, oh hey there, I'm Kate.

00:00:19.236 --> 00:00:22.742
And I'm Bradley and we are the History Buffoons.

00:00:22.742 --> 00:00:24.687
That's right, yes, yes.

00:00:24.687 --> 00:00:25.248
Yes.

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How are you?

00:00:26.571 --> 00:00:27.312
I'm well, how are you?

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I's right?

00:00:27.774 --> 00:00:28.094
Yes, yes, yes.

00:00:28.094 --> 00:00:28.414
How are you?

00:00:28.414 --> 00:00:28.975
I'm well, how are you?

00:00:28.975 --> 00:00:29.257
I'm good.

00:00:29.257 --> 00:00:29.998
Yeah, yeah, excellent.

00:00:30.500 --> 00:00:34.450
Yeah, it's kind of a long week, but yeah, it felt like it.

00:00:34.810 --> 00:00:37.604
Yeah, but you know, we made it through.

00:00:38.046 --> 00:00:38.628
We sure did.

00:00:39.500 --> 00:00:40.866
On to record another episode.

00:00:40.866 --> 00:00:44.165
Why is that funny?

00:00:49.140 --> 00:00:49.500
another episode.

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:49.902
Why is that funny?

00:00:49.902 --> 00:00:50.643
Um, because I killed it this week.

00:00:50.643 --> 00:00:50.984
Yeah, yeah, how so?

00:00:50.984 --> 00:00:55.896
Do tell lots of research, yes, lots of writing yeah just I killed it what is it?

00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.402
writing for our podcast I know, I was joking yes, I, I killed it.

00:01:03.402 --> 00:01:04.243
All right.

00:01:05.703 --> 00:01:08.484
I'm also excited because you surprised me with a beer.

00:01:08.926 --> 00:01:09.706
I did so.

00:01:09.706 --> 00:01:18.790
As we've said hi Penny, multiple times on this podcast, I like to drink Limey's Summer Shandy.

00:01:18.790 --> 00:01:30.834
It's my go-to everyday beer and we were picking out podcast beers a week or two ago and we saw that Lainey's has a new Lainey Lodge, lime.

00:01:30.974 --> 00:01:38.799
Lainey Kugel has a Lainey Lodge Lime and it's a bright lime green can and I love it.

00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.484
And tell them the style of beer that it is.

00:01:41.484 --> 00:01:44.060
It is a Mexican-style lager with natural lime flavor.

00:01:44.320 --> 00:02:09.753
Yeah, which is right up your alley, because you love your medellos I sure do with a lime typically so and, if you didn't know, line of kugel is from milwaukee well, it's from chippewa falls, but they just actually it's from chippewa falls and also milwaukee so they just recently apparently I saw something on this they just recently closed operations down at the original brewery.

00:02:09.974 --> 00:02:11.219
Really, I believe I saw that?

00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.028
Oh, so are they just full-time in Milwaukee now.

00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:23.252
Yeah, but they're from up in Chippewa Falls, so the Limey Lodge, which is their store and beer room, and everything is still there.

00:02:23.252 --> 00:02:28.403
However, apparently they don't brew any beer out of there anymore is what I saw.

00:02:28.403 --> 00:02:29.526
I think that's right.

00:02:30.127 --> 00:02:32.881
I didn't look into it what kind of beer do you have?

00:02:32.901 --> 00:02:33.502
oh dear.

00:02:33.502 --> 00:02:38.907
I got caught on my quad so I have a beer.

00:02:38.907 --> 00:02:42.772
That's been long awaiting to try.

00:02:43.073 --> 00:02:45.575
Oh, okay, didn't have to interrupt, but here we are.

00:02:45.575 --> 00:02:50.831
So, as you know, our first fan, Al Al.

00:02:50.831 --> 00:02:53.046
He is still in the beer business.

00:02:53.046 --> 00:03:09.848
That's where he and I met many, many, many, many, many years ago, and he currently lives out in Nevada and he works for a couple breweries that he's part of, I guess, and one of them is Avery, and they have a Maharaja IPA.

00:03:09.848 --> 00:03:16.524
He told me, because he knows I like IPAs, that I should try this, and then I went to the store.

00:03:16.524 --> 00:03:17.445
Couldn't find it.

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Couldn't find it.

00:03:17.806 --> 00:03:18.449
Ooh, I found it.

00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:22.969
Holy balls, it's almost 15 bucks a six pack, holy crap.

00:03:22.969 --> 00:03:26.881
So the first time I saw it, I'm like I'm going to wait.

00:03:26.881 --> 00:03:31.125
I guess I just wasn't prepared to spend $15 on a six pack at that time it better be good.

00:03:31.705 --> 00:03:36.889
However, this week I was prepared, apparently because I currently have a six pack here.

00:03:37.250 --> 00:03:38.010
Maharaja.

00:03:38.311 --> 00:03:45.016
Maharaja, and so it's an Imperial India Pale Ale 10%.

00:03:45.396 --> 00:03:46.237
Holy schmuckies.

00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:47.986
Yeah, so I have two of these queued up.

00:03:49.161 --> 00:03:51.169
I have two Linen Kugels queued up.

00:03:51.340 --> 00:03:55.352
I might be feeling a little saucy at the end of this episode.

00:03:55.352 --> 00:03:58.147
So thanks for the suggestion, al.

00:03:58.247 --> 00:04:01.990
Here we go, oh, yes, yes, oh my gosh, I can't wait for this.

00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:03.544
I'll let you try it first.

00:04:03.544 --> 00:04:11.742
Usually we choose each other, but oh yeah, cheers, I'll have another sip.

00:04:11.742 --> 00:04:12.364
It's pretty good, can you, is it?

00:04:12.383 --> 00:04:16.029
it's not too limey no, that's not too limey.

00:04:16.029 --> 00:04:19.642
I still prefer modelo, sure, but this is a great little substitute.

00:04:19.642 --> 00:04:20.464
Okay, I like it.

00:04:20.665 --> 00:04:24.065
There you go yeah, I will keep drinking it, for sure it will not go to waste, I promise you?

00:04:24.065 --> 00:04:25.654
Yeah, I will keep drinking it for sure it will not go to waste.

00:04:25.654 --> 00:04:26.278
I promise you.

00:04:26.278 --> 00:04:28.624
Yeah, At least keep drinking it until all six are gone.

00:04:28.644 --> 00:04:31.992
Yeah absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

00:04:32.031 --> 00:04:32.834
Yeah, absolutely.

00:04:32.834 --> 00:04:34.766
I think that's our new term.

00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:43.310
Yeah, absolutely All the kitties are put away except for Penny and Amos.

00:04:43.672 --> 00:04:44.353
That's really good.

00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:45.504
Oh, yeah, yeah, Hold for uh penny and amos.

00:04:45.524 --> 00:04:46.108
That's really good.

00:04:46.108 --> 00:04:53.367
Oh yeah yeah, hold on while I take a second sip worth the 15 yes, thanks al.

00:04:53.367 --> 00:04:56.211
Uh, great choice, or a suggestion?

00:04:56.211 --> 00:05:01.367
Um, the funny thing is I told him how much I got it for and he's like that's a great price.

00:05:01.367 --> 00:05:05.357
Oh wow, but he also lives out in nevada so not sure what the pricing is out there.

00:05:05.357 --> 00:05:09.790
Yeah, definitely could be a little higher, but that's really good.

00:05:10.021 --> 00:05:14.271
So it is now like mid-afternoon.

00:05:14.552 --> 00:05:14.771
Yes.

00:05:15.940 --> 00:05:19.930
And Amos is pretty on the dot when it comes.

00:05:19.930 --> 00:05:20.992
Well, actually, he's really not.

00:05:20.992 --> 00:05:29.728
He's fairly early when it comes to wanting to be fed and he is the most vocal out of all five of them put together.

00:05:30.451 --> 00:05:31.774
Oh, hands, all of them put together.

00:05:31.774 --> 00:05:34.928
I've been over to your house close to feeding time.

00:05:34.928 --> 00:05:36.764
I swear he yells at me.

00:05:36.764 --> 00:05:38.711
It's what he's doing, oh my God.

00:05:38.711 --> 00:05:41.629
He walks around and just yells, and then he'll walk up to you and yell.

00:05:41.649 --> 00:05:41.728
Yeah.

00:05:41.728 --> 00:05:56.209
So to say he's the most vocal is an understatement yeah, but like you can't really pick him up or like snuggle him because and he's a scaredy cat, he's like the quintessential scaredy cat yeah, that's pretty much.

00:05:56.951 --> 00:05:59.963
If he was alive when they created that term, they would show a picture of him.

00:06:00.023 --> 00:06:12.142
Yeah, he would be in the dictionary as Scaredy Cat aka Amos, so if he interrupts us during this, that is why it's almost dinner time.

00:06:12.785 --> 00:06:13.807
That's all right, we'll make do.

00:06:14.026 --> 00:06:17.053
Yeah, okay, I want one more drink before we move on to this, sorry.

00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:22.451
I'm glad you like it, though I know you said you like your Medela better, but I'm glad you're enjoying it.

00:06:22.451 --> 00:06:32.783
It's got a limey taste like like your summer shandy.

00:06:32.783 --> 00:06:36.314
Sure it does have that, but yeah, they, they have obviously a distinct kind of process and now that it's all uh macro through milwaukee, which is unfortunate.

00:06:36.314 --> 00:06:38.543
I liked it better when they were just up in the chippewa falls.

00:06:38.543 --> 00:06:46.456
But yeah they've been brewing them down in milwaukee for some time, so that's also why summer shandy's year round nowadays.

00:06:46.696 --> 00:06:49.764
So okay, you're ready for this I'm ready for this.

00:06:49.764 --> 00:06:55.098
Let's do this okay, so this story came from nathan.

00:06:55.098 --> 00:06:59.970
Okay, he heard it off of the tv show letter kenny I know of it.

00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:12.067
I've never watched it same yeah, he finds it absolutely hilarious I think it was my brother, one or both my brothers, unless I'm mixing up a show, but yeah, I've heard and I think it's a Canadian show, I believe that's correct.

00:07:12.148 --> 00:07:22.593
Yes, so for some reason this Canadian comedy show talked about a particular story.

00:07:22.975 --> 00:07:23.274
Okay.

00:07:23.422 --> 00:07:24.458
And I'm going to talk about it today.

00:07:24.478 --> 00:07:25.805
Okay, Well, I kind of gathered that.

00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:28.384
Based on my intro.

00:07:28.384 --> 00:07:29.528
Yes, okay, good.

00:07:29.528 --> 00:07:33.269
Yes, I did the thing you did something.

00:07:33.269 --> 00:07:39.949
Okay, so we are going to talk about Lizzie Sear.

00:07:40.732 --> 00:07:42.564
Sear Like S-E-E-R.

00:07:42.846 --> 00:07:50.204
No, her last name is spelled completely different okay her last name is spelled c-y-r.

00:07:50.204 --> 00:07:52.346
Oh sure yeah lizzie seer.

00:07:52.346 --> 00:08:00.545
Okay, so not much is known about her other than through her arrest records is she canadian too?

00:08:00.665 --> 00:08:03.091
she is, so you're to tell me what's all about her.

00:08:03.091 --> 00:08:04.132
What's all about?

00:08:04.132 --> 00:08:05.074
What's it all about?

00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:08.726
So she was 5'6".

00:08:08.726 --> 00:08:10.851
Brown eyes, dark complexion.

00:08:10.851 --> 00:08:12.747
She was born in Canada.

00:08:12.747 --> 00:08:17.071
She has First Nations and European heritage.

00:08:17.071 --> 00:08:20.673
She was born in 1888.

00:08:20.694 --> 00:08:21.980
1888, wow.

00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.850
So at the time of our story she was 29 years old.

00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:26.329
That's two stories in a row that you mentioned 1888.

00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:26.906
Why88, wow, so at the time of our story she was 29 years old.

00:08:26.906 --> 00:08:27.809
That's two stories in a row that you mentioned 1888.

00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:29.887
Why do you have the memory that you do?

00:08:29.887 --> 00:08:32.485
Oh my God.

00:08:33.322 --> 00:08:35.394
The funny thing is you meant to say 1889.

00:08:35.414 --> 00:08:36.299
1888.

00:08:36.299 --> 00:08:39.048
Okay, this is, I'm going to show you a picture of Lizzie Sear.

00:08:39.048 --> 00:08:41.407
She's supposed to be 28.

00:08:41.407 --> 00:08:43.046
I mean she is 28.

00:08:43.046 --> 00:08:48.610
Wait, she's 28 in that picture, but doesn't she look like the unsinkable Molly Brown or something.

00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:52.191
She looks like she was rode hard and put away wet for sure, Holy balls.

00:08:52.191 --> 00:08:54.647
Yeah, and she does look like the unsinkable Molly.

00:08:54.667 --> 00:08:55.208
Brown, she does.

00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:59.639
Wasn't she like 60, though, or something like that she's 29.

00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:01.783
Actually, she was probably 40, but that was 1912.

00:09:01.783 --> 00:09:04.407
Actually, she was probably 40, but that was 1912.

00:09:04.427 --> 00:09:06.870
Yeah, wow, okay, so her occupation.

00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:15.390
In her arrest record said wife, okay, and she was arrested for being a wife.

00:09:15.390 --> 00:09:16.513
Vagrancy.

00:09:17.061 --> 00:09:17.966
Oh, she was a vagrant.

00:09:18.961 --> 00:09:22.754
They called sex workers vagrants at that time.

00:09:22.754 --> 00:09:25.729
Oh okay so she was arrested for vagrancy Gotcha.

00:09:25.749 --> 00:09:28.202
Okay, so her vagrancy had a vacancy.

00:09:28.202 --> 00:09:29.504
Did she like to fill it?

00:09:29.504 --> 00:09:31.408
Wow, wow.

00:09:32.589 --> 00:09:33.230
Wow.

00:09:33.630 --> 00:09:34.412
Podcast gold.

00:09:35.273 --> 00:09:35.874
Are you sure?

00:09:36.073 --> 00:09:38.326
Nope, okay, actually, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite.

00:09:38.379 --> 00:09:39.542
Pretty sure it's turning my finger.

00:09:39.542 --> 00:09:40.562
Gold I mean green.

00:09:43.668 --> 00:09:45.892
Here on History, buffoon's podcast.

00:09:46.653 --> 00:09:47.774
It's turning my ears green.

00:09:47.774 --> 00:09:52.224
There it is Wow Okay.

00:09:52.283 --> 00:09:55.086
It's more like some fool's gold over there Super fool.

00:09:55.307 --> 00:10:00.052
Okay, the guy who basically got arrested.

00:10:00.052 --> 00:10:07.000
His name is John James Ryan, so is that how?

00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:09.620
they got a John as the name.

00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:09.801
Okay.

00:10:09.821 --> 00:10:11.221
John James, he's starting early.

00:10:11.682 --> 00:10:12.802
Oh hey, dinner time.

00:10:12.802 --> 00:10:15.423
I mean it's not, but dinner time.

00:10:16.384 --> 00:10:20.225
So he gets her arrested on May 17th 1917.

00:10:20.505 --> 00:10:20.807
Okay.

00:10:21.047 --> 00:10:28.929
They did know each other for a while, and just a few days before this arrest she was down on her luck.

00:10:28.929 --> 00:10:35.854
She had no money, nowhere to go, and because they knew each other, he let her stay at his place.

00:10:36.293 --> 00:10:39.054
So if she was listed as wife, where was her husband?

00:10:39.815 --> 00:10:41.836
They were getting a divorce.

00:10:41.836 --> 00:10:42.317
I believe.

00:10:42.576 --> 00:10:44.337
So they were estranged, yeah, in a way.

00:10:45.337 --> 00:10:47.278
So, okay, fine he.

00:10:47.278 --> 00:10:47.839
So they were estranged.

00:10:47.839 --> 00:10:49.159
Yeah, Okay, fine, he lets her stay right.

00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:54.788
Sure, yeah, and then he pays her $10 to make a holla.

00:10:54.807 --> 00:10:57.586
Yeah, wait, make him holla.

00:10:58.301 --> 00:11:00.489
Whatever Doesn't matter, no judgment.

00:11:00.489 --> 00:11:03.408
But she gets sick the next day.

00:11:03.688 --> 00:11:04.009
Oh dear.

00:11:04.980 --> 00:11:08.369
And so she's stuck at his place for another night, essentially.

00:11:09.191 --> 00:11:10.614
Oh man, so another $10?

00:11:10.614 --> 00:11:10.614
.

00:11:12.760 --> 00:11:14.264
By Sunday, though.

00:11:14.264 --> 00:11:21.005
John James Ryan how boring of a name, I mean pretty.

00:11:21.528 --> 00:11:22.230
I know Pretty.

00:11:23.201 --> 00:11:25.345
By Sunday, he's had enough, and he kicks her out.

00:11:25.345 --> 00:11:26.739
Okay, a few by Sunday, he's had enough, and he kicks her out.

00:11:26.739 --> 00:11:29.147
Okay, a few days later he gets sick.

00:11:29.749 --> 00:11:30.289
Oh dear.

00:11:30.801 --> 00:11:33.628
Of the Rhea.

00:11:34.791 --> 00:11:35.231
The Ghana.

00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:36.985
The Ghana of the Rhea.

00:11:37.907 --> 00:11:39.091
Wow, that sucks.

00:11:39.461 --> 00:11:40.840
He has gonorrhea.

00:11:41.041 --> 00:11:42.206
Well, I bet she does too.

00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:44.346
And of course he blames Lizzie.

00:11:44.567 --> 00:11:45.409
Well, why wouldn't he?

00:11:45.921 --> 00:11:58.501
but you know what he's had, this fucking disease before yeah, it's probably from him, yeah and instead of going to the doctor, he goes straight to the drugstore that's weird and then he tries to blackmail her.

00:11:58.501 --> 00:12:02.047
Okay, if you pay for my meds, I won't call the cops.

00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:04.870
But so I'm confused.

00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:06.793
What is he calling the cops on, though?

00:12:06.793 --> 00:12:07.995
Vagrancy?

00:12:07.995 --> 00:12:11.248
I mean, that seems kind of loose at this point.

00:12:11.248 --> 00:12:16.570
Ba-dum-bum, thank you, glad you got that, but you know what I mean.

00:12:17.461 --> 00:12:23.690
Well, she tells him where to go Straight to H-E-double hockey sticks, hey.

00:12:25.140 --> 00:12:33.863
We're a family show and he calls the cops on her of course so they grab her that afternoon and she's literally got nothing to her name.

00:12:33.863 --> 00:12:37.394
She doesn't even have a dime in her pocket okay, crazy.

00:12:37.394 --> 00:13:13.335
So seer was charged under section 238a of the criminal code, which, and I quote Not having any visible means of substance, is found wandering abroad or lodging in any barn or outhouse or any deserted or unoccupied building or any cart of wagon, or in any railway carriage or freight car or in any railway building, any railway carriage or freight car or any railway building, and not having a good account of himself or who, not having any visible means of maintaining himself, lives without employment.

00:13:15.241 --> 00:13:17.067
They're really specific about locations.

00:13:17.168 --> 00:13:17.408
Yeah.

00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.130
I mean that's pretty wild that they would, I mean outhouse.

00:13:21.130 --> 00:13:24.306
I mean seriously, I mean I understand the time.

00:13:25.822 --> 00:13:28.114
So, all in all, she's a criminal Okay.

00:13:28.537 --> 00:13:29.100
She's a vagrant.

00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:49.081
So Lizzie Sears' arrest was rather commonplace, obviously unsavory, but it would have faded into obscurity, right Sure to obscurity right, sure.

00:13:49.081 --> 00:13:55.053
However, it became a catalyst for a major legal development, oh dear, which I will get into later I hope so, because now I'm intrigued you are on the edge of your seat.

00:13:55.053 --> 00:13:56.563
I mean just kidding, he's really not.

00:13:56.563 --> 00:14:00.062
He's sitting far back into the couch with his legs up and beer in his pocket.

00:14:00.081 --> 00:14:09.205
Whatever you're in my pocket I was actually gonna sing your pocket the day after her arrest on may 18th 1917.

00:14:09.205 --> 00:14:12.210
Yeah, lizzie sear went to court what's her name?

00:14:12.210 --> 00:14:17.065
Sear, lizzie sear lizzie okay no jury of course.

00:14:17.264 --> 00:14:17.905
Why would they have one?

00:14:18.167 --> 00:14:25.370
vacancy wasn't considered serious enough for that, so she was left solely to the mercy of the magistrate.

00:14:25.844 --> 00:14:26.779
Ooh magistrates.

00:14:26.860 --> 00:14:31.691
With only her lawyer, John McKinley Cameron, to represent her.

00:14:31.691 --> 00:14:32.312
Okay.

00:14:32.332 --> 00:14:32.472
Okay.

00:14:33.020 --> 00:14:36.557
So John McKinley Cameron was quite the character.

00:14:36.557 --> 00:14:43.490
Yeah, he was a lawyer from Nova Scotia, oh, which is, you know, on the east coast of Canada?

00:14:43.490 --> 00:14:47.791
Sure, okay, he started out representing mine workers.

00:14:47.791 --> 00:14:51.004
They moved out West to Calgary, alberta oh, do you know where Alberta is?

00:14:51.004 --> 00:14:51.865
Uh?

00:14:51.966 --> 00:14:52.365
Canada.

00:14:52.365 --> 00:14:56.413
Yes, I am not wrong.

00:14:57.461 --> 00:15:01.822
It's like the second to last on the Western Cause.

00:15:01.822 --> 00:15:02.043
What's?

00:15:02.082 --> 00:15:03.865
the furthest West one Cause.

00:15:03.865 --> 00:15:04.894
That's where Vancouver is right.

00:15:04.955 --> 00:15:05.337
Correct.

00:15:05.337 --> 00:15:08.870
Okay yeah, so it's British Columbia on the far west and then Alberta.

00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.129
You would think I'm 45 and I fucking don't know any of this.

00:15:12.129 --> 00:15:12.410
I know.

00:15:13.520 --> 00:15:14.525
I'm just as bad.

00:15:14.525 --> 00:15:19.491
I actually did a lot of research on the maps and stuff talking about this case.

00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.025
Because I knew where Vancouver was.

00:15:28.961 --> 00:15:31.043
I knew that was British Columbia.

00:15:31.062 --> 00:15:33.784
Yeah, I know of Toronto, I don't know which, which territory.

00:15:33.804 --> 00:15:34.065
is that in?

00:15:34.065 --> 00:15:34.565
Is that Manitoba?

00:15:34.565 --> 00:15:35.166
I don't fucking know.

00:15:35.166 --> 00:15:37.267
Oh shit, no, we're just we're, we're buffoons?

00:15:37.287 --> 00:15:37.927
Yeah, we are, I mean.

00:15:37.927 --> 00:15:41.349
I mean we pretty much already called, called ourselves out, but Hold up, Cameron.

00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:55.697
He's now in Alberta, Calgary, yes, okay, which is like central Alberta, but like to the west, or, excuse me, to the south, central to the south.

00:15:55.898 --> 00:15:56.457
I have a question.

00:15:56.937 --> 00:15:57.097
Yes.

00:15:58.480 --> 00:15:59.360
Bradley with his hand up.

00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.342
Do you know the hockey team in Calgary's name?

00:16:02.903 --> 00:16:03.102
No.

00:16:03.744 --> 00:16:04.364
The Flames.

00:16:05.966 --> 00:16:06.605
All right Trivia.

00:16:06.605 --> 00:16:06.905
No the Flames.

00:16:06.905 --> 00:16:07.547
All right Trivia folks.

00:16:08.126 --> 00:16:08.407
There you go.

00:16:08.407 --> 00:16:10.568
Their logo is a C with some flames coming off the back.

00:16:10.928 --> 00:16:11.188
Cool.

00:16:11.470 --> 00:16:13.971
Yeah, anyway, hockey eh.

00:16:14.251 --> 00:16:19.456
Cameron opened his own firm and criminal law was his focus.

00:16:19.596 --> 00:16:19.895
Okay.

00:16:19.956 --> 00:16:20.235
Okay.

00:16:20.235 --> 00:16:21.937
So he was brilliant.

00:16:21.937 --> 00:16:23.441
Everyone said so.

00:16:23.441 --> 00:16:25.285
He knew the criminal code inside and out.

00:16:25.285 --> 00:16:27.211
But he was also kind of unconventional.

00:16:27.471 --> 00:16:27.711
Sure.

00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.248
He would wear mismatched suits.

00:16:30.520 --> 00:16:32.446
I feel like they make movies about people like this.

00:16:32.446 --> 00:16:33.910
Probably, yeah, absolutely.

00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:37.447
Mismatched suits, sometimes even rubber boots, in court.

00:16:37.447 --> 00:16:38.490
What yes?

00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:43.322
He'd occasionally sleep in his garage loft with his hunting dogs Aw, that's cute.

00:16:43.322 --> 00:16:47.451
So a little quirky, a little quirky, a little eccentric, but he was serious about his work.

00:16:47.451 --> 00:17:03.659
He took on cases that other lawyers wouldn't touch, especially when the clients were super poor or fringes of society kind of thing Minors, immigrants, vagrants, so sex workers you know, a whole, but he had a real sense of justice.

00:17:03.659 --> 00:17:04.682
So it seems.

00:17:04.682 --> 00:17:09.104
Well, that's a positive yeah, I'm gonna take a swig because you would.

00:17:09.263 --> 00:17:15.046
You would hope that he has, you know, kind of that demeanor to try and help these lowlifes.

00:17:15.046 --> 00:17:22.060
We'll just call them, for lack of a better term, yeah, um, or unfortunate people, whatever you want to say so.

00:17:22.060 --> 00:17:25.666
I mean down on their luck yeah, it's nice to have someone fighting for the little guy.

00:17:25.666 --> 00:17:28.050
Yeah, I sound like I'm a politician there.

00:17:28.050 --> 00:17:35.911
Yeah, absolutely, and the funny thing is, politicians never fight for the little guy anyways okay.

00:17:35.931 --> 00:17:49.513
So right from the get-go, cameron, the lawyer went on the attack yeah, of course you gotta fucking fight, fight, fight yeah, so he immediately declared, uh, the charge against sear as having no basis, pointing out that many women in Calgary didn't earn an income.

00:17:49.815 --> 00:17:50.035
Right.

00:17:50.621 --> 00:17:52.567
But also weren't considered vagrants.

00:17:52.567 --> 00:18:00.926
Sure Okay, he entered a not guilty plea.

00:18:00.926 --> 00:18:10.296
He argued that the magistrate didn't have the legal authority to try the case because the magistrate was a woman.

00:18:10.935 --> 00:18:11.616
Well, shit.

00:18:11.616 --> 00:18:16.948
So, Ryan, why does that matter?

00:18:17.107 --> 00:18:17.910
Oh, I'll tell you.

00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:18.471
Okay, good.

00:18:18.751 --> 00:18:18.952
Uh-huh.

00:18:18.952 --> 00:18:29.167
So Ryan the John yeah, john Ryan, he gets up to testify first, testify brother yeah, and Cameron, just John Ryan, he gets up to testify first, testify brother yeah, and Cameron, just like nails him.

00:18:29.167 --> 00:18:36.186
So he's sharp, you know, but he also got this kind of like witty edge, so he basically uses Ryan's own words to make him look.

00:18:36.586 --> 00:18:38.309
Like an idiot Less than virtuous.

00:18:38.309 --> 00:18:39.813
Sure, oh yeah, that too.

00:18:39.813 --> 00:18:40.314
Gonorrhea.

00:18:40.473 --> 00:18:55.871
Yeah, and it really made you wonder, like, how much ryan was actually like what he was saying was actually true, right.

00:18:55.891 --> 00:18:58.557
So now my favorite part of this whole thing oh, my word, you and I bradley, you and I, we're gonna role play.

00:18:58.576 --> 00:18:59.480
Oh, jesus, is this what you put on my computer.

00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.272
I put a file on his computer and we're gonna to read it together.

00:19:03.272 --> 00:19:04.676
This is his first time reading it.

00:19:04.676 --> 00:19:09.527
Oh, my word so if he flubs, that's only because he's sightseeing.

00:19:09.527 --> 00:19:12.092
Sightseeing, no sightreading, that's the word.

00:19:12.092 --> 00:19:13.755
He's sightreading.

00:19:15.441 --> 00:19:18.147
The worst part is I never learned how to read.

00:19:18.147 --> 00:19:19.531
Is that all true?

00:19:19.531 --> 00:19:20.843
Everything but the reading part.

00:19:20.843 --> 00:19:23.269
Sorry, that's from a movie Name.

00:19:23.269 --> 00:19:25.842
That movie Give you $5.

00:19:25.842 --> 00:19:29.073
But the reading part sorry, that's from a movie name that movie give you five dollars, I don't know, cool I saved five dollars, folks.

00:19:29.093 --> 00:19:29.875
What was it from wayne's world?

00:19:29.875 --> 00:19:30.920
Oh, I've only seen that like once.

00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.326
It's not my fault open to your computer.

00:19:34.647 --> 00:19:35.410
Oh, I don't.

00:19:35.670 --> 00:19:44.251
I wasn't told that I should actually do it yes, we're gonna role play and you should have the document pulled up says Bradley, read the red portions.

00:19:44.352 --> 00:19:47.226
Yes, that's right, good job okay.

00:19:47.567 --> 00:19:54.406
So I am playing Cameron the lawyer, and you are playing Ryan the John.

00:19:54.406 --> 00:19:55.189
Okay.

00:19:56.393 --> 00:19:57.296
Let me get into character here.

00:19:58.097 --> 00:19:58.599
All right.

00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:03.602
So when did you consult a doctor about your gonorrhea?

00:20:04.570 --> 00:20:06.157
I did not consult a doctor about it.

00:20:06.157 --> 00:20:10.000
When it started running, I went to the drugstore and bought some medicine.

00:20:10.571 --> 00:20:15.940
I'm sorry running it's got to be some kind of discharge.

00:20:17.270 --> 00:20:18.836
I'm just reading what's here in front of me.

00:20:19.097 --> 00:20:26.421
I know I'm putting in commentary, oh okay, okay, back to cameron because you made me feel stupid about that back to cameron.

00:20:26.421 --> 00:20:27.584
When was that?

00:20:27.584 --> 00:20:31.877
The day before yesterday what doctor did you see?

00:20:32.578 --> 00:20:33.921
I did not see any doctor.

00:20:33.921 --> 00:20:36.211
I went to mr mcgill and told him what.

00:20:36.211 --> 00:20:37.415
What was the matter?

00:20:37.415 --> 00:20:40.326
And he said I know the medicine you need.

00:20:41.008 --> 00:20:44.053
Are you still running at large, Jesus Christ?

00:20:44.053 --> 00:20:44.816
What the running.

00:20:47.892 --> 00:20:49.176
I am not running at large.

00:20:49.176 --> 00:20:52.211
I have got a home and working every day.

00:20:52.252 --> 00:20:52.795
Got a family.

00:20:54.031 --> 00:20:54.934
No, I am not married.

00:20:54.934 --> 00:20:57.196
I rent a home and I stay at home every night.

00:20:57.549 --> 00:21:01.692
You are going to behave yourself and leave the girls alone until you are cured.

00:21:01.692 --> 00:21:03.855
Yes, I am okay.

00:21:03.855 --> 00:21:06.240
So here's the thing cameron was was driving it.

00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.951
Yeah, so he made it clear that what?

00:21:07.951 --> 00:21:11.420
Ryan wasn't exactly a model citizen when he came to public health.

00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:19.471
Right, he pointed out that ryan had contracted the disease before and, by his own admission, he was a regular client of sex workers.

00:21:19.471 --> 00:21:25.442
Right, so cameron's argument argument was that Ryan was just as likely, if not more, to spread the disease.

00:21:25.643 --> 00:21:26.525
Sure, Makes sense.

00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:31.942
By sleeping with other women, he'd be the one creating a chain reaction, spreading it through the city.

00:21:32.289 --> 00:21:33.474
Right Spreading it.

00:21:33.474 --> 00:21:36.596
Wow, that's Spreading, yes, epidemic.

00:21:36.938 --> 00:21:42.981
Me as Cameron Outside of getting diseased, was there any other objection to her?

00:21:43.570 --> 00:21:48.131
the objection was I did not want to keep a prostitute in the house and she did not want to leave.

00:21:48.991 --> 00:22:01.621
I mean touche you took the prostitute to your house yes, for one night and after one dose of gonorrhea you thought you should not have a prostitute in your house.

00:22:01.621 --> 00:22:08.544
You are sure you are absolutely virtuous and could not have gotten it from any other woman.

00:22:08.544 --> 00:22:13.520
So Cameron really dug into Ryan at this point.

00:22:15.771 --> 00:22:17.538
Okay, I don't mean to interrupt.

00:22:17.538 --> 00:22:20.660
I just read the next two and it's fucking fantastic.

00:22:20.660 --> 00:22:23.196
It's so basic but it's so great.

00:22:24.070 --> 00:22:27.724
Okay, so Ryan wasn't exactly known for his monogamy.

00:22:28.788 --> 00:22:28.950
Clearly.

00:22:29.069 --> 00:22:30.917
He admitted to seeing other sex workers.

00:22:30.917 --> 00:22:35.501
So Cameron basically asked how could he possibly pinpoint Lizzie?

00:22:35.501 --> 00:22:41.630
Ryan's answer was that she was the only one he'd been with recently.

00:22:41.630 --> 00:22:47.089
Cameron, with his like dry wit, just replied you are very moderate.

00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:50.019
What do you do for a living?

00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:51.336
I work.

00:22:51.336 --> 00:22:53.659
That is so great.

00:22:53.659 --> 00:22:55.356
Are you working now?

00:22:55.912 --> 00:23:01.076
well, if I was not here, I would be working this afternoon at the Central Methodist Church.

00:23:01.076 --> 00:23:03.336
I mean, he's very straightforward.

00:23:03.436 --> 00:23:07.039
Yes, I think you will contaminate the church.

00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.718
Are you still going to work for the church?

00:23:11.219 --> 00:23:11.440
Yes.

00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:17.442
The adjudant oh yeah, there, Look at that I should read forward.

00:23:17.442 --> 00:23:21.941
The adjudant phoned me down at the Salvation Army.

00:23:22.549 --> 00:23:24.739
Did you reveal to him that you had gonorrhea?

00:23:25.171 --> 00:23:26.055
No, I did not.

00:23:26.911 --> 00:23:28.617
What work are you going down there?

00:23:28.617 --> 00:23:33.080
Because we do not want an epidemic to break out in the church.

00:23:33.570 --> 00:23:34.670
Epidemic of gonorrhea.

00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:40.403
She is charged that on the 17th day of May she had no visible means of support.

00:23:40.403 --> 00:23:41.613
You don't know that.

00:23:41.613 --> 00:23:43.439
She is a decent married woman.

00:23:44.152 --> 00:23:45.518
I have seen her around.

00:23:46.010 --> 00:23:48.759
It takes two to have sexual intercourse.

00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:50.175
Are you a decent man?

00:23:50.890 --> 00:23:53.019
I guess I am working and earning my living.

00:23:53.019 --> 00:23:54.596
What the fuck.

00:23:57.113 --> 00:23:57.674
I don't know.

00:23:58.290 --> 00:24:03.722
I wish I was in this courtroom to see this, because I would just be laughing the whole fucking time.

00:24:03.722 --> 00:24:07.920
Seriously, I guess I am working and earning my living.

00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:14.563
Okay, so Cameron definitely got the better of Ryan and Cor, but Ryan wasn't naive, he knew the system.

00:24:15.250 --> 00:24:20.990
Being a man with a steady job, working at a church, no less less, and a place to live, he had a clear advantage.

00:24:20.990 --> 00:24:33.678
It's why he probably felt safe reporting seer, even though he was basically admitting to his own involvement, sure, and he understood the public sphere of venereal disease and how prejudiced they were against certain groups.

00:24:33.678 --> 00:24:34.541
Yeah, it makes sense.

00:24:34.541 --> 00:24:35.224
So you see.

00:24:35.224 --> 00:24:39.782
Well, calgary had been pretty lax about vagrancy and prostitution in the past.

00:24:39.782 --> 00:24:40.526
Things had changed.

00:24:40.526 --> 00:24:51.679
By the 1910s there was a real push for moral reform driven by church groups, citizen organizations and women's groups, and they were putting pressure on the police to clean up the city.

00:24:51.679 --> 00:24:54.029
All right, and the police were responding.

00:24:54.029 --> 00:25:02.063
They got more organized under new chiefs and they were really cracking down, closing down all the brothels in the city.

00:25:02.063 --> 00:25:14.401
Okay, so beyond just like moral outrage, there was a huge fear of venereal disease, sure, and even though it affected everyone, it was mostly blamed on quote-unquote, immoral women.

00:25:14.561 --> 00:25:19.093
Well, yeah, because they're the ones who got around to yes the or whatever.

00:25:19.093 --> 00:25:19.512
Blah, blah blah.

00:25:19.532 --> 00:25:28.298
Yes, historian David Bright points out that women were so worried about public health that they were willing to overlook individual rights.

00:25:28.298 --> 00:25:36.964
So, with that kind of atmosphere, plus the existing prejudice against Métis, which I will explain, and indigenous women.

00:25:36.964 --> 00:25:40.407
Lizzie Sear was really up against it from the start.

00:25:41.650 --> 00:25:42.230
Oh 100%.

00:25:42.270 --> 00:25:58.624
Matisse refers to a distinct indigenous nation descended from unions between indigenous peoples and Europeans Okay, and is one of the three recognized indigenous peoples in Canada, along with First Nations and Inuit.

00:25:59.023 --> 00:25:59.305
Really.

00:25:59.430 --> 00:26:03.742
And we've talked about Inuit in the Whiskey War, origin of Weird Story.

00:26:03.742 --> 00:26:05.990
Sure have Mm-hmm Wow okay.

00:26:06.109 --> 00:26:20.680
So Ryan strategically painted Sear as a threat to public health, constantly mentioning her infection, sure, and he went so far as to say she shouldn't be running around carrying that disease doing this and that.

00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:31.662
He also added fuel to the fire by mentioning her separation from her husband Even more damaging insinuating an improper connection with a Chinese man.

00:26:31.662 --> 00:26:45.777
Now he knew that, given the era's deep-seated prejudice, this would further discredit her right and I will say, the next role-playing section.

00:26:45.777 --> 00:26:48.961
Here chinaman is mentioned.

00:26:48.961 --> 00:26:54.377
However, they had a derogatory term and I'm not allowed, I'm not willing to say that.

00:26:54.417 --> 00:26:56.261
so you're allowed to say you just don't want.

00:26:56.321 --> 00:27:02.700
I don't want to say there's a difference so the derogatory word is now going to be called china man.

00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:04.583
Okay can I ask you it later?

00:27:04.682 --> 00:27:10.257
off off of sure sure but you are going to begin this section, sure am.

00:27:10.838 --> 00:27:14.089
Go ahead, ryan I knocked at the door and it was locked.

00:27:14.089 --> 00:27:18.211
A few minutes after she opened the door and a china man was in the room with her.

00:27:18.412 --> 00:27:20.432
The China man was there for the laundry.

00:27:20.813 --> 00:27:22.093
The door was locked.

00:27:22.513 --> 00:27:24.595
Did you warn the Chinese man against her?

00:27:25.154 --> 00:27:31.797
No, when the Chinese man seen me, seen me, he walked out.

00:27:32.778 --> 00:27:35.818
You don't know if he took anything away with him or not.

00:27:36.318 --> 00:27:39.560
No, they were in the room together and the room was locked, wow.

00:27:39.881 --> 00:27:42.281
How do you know you have gonorrhea?

00:27:42.281 --> 00:27:43.962
Did you consult a doctor?

00:27:44.303 --> 00:27:45.423
It started running.

00:27:45.522 --> 00:27:46.683
What started running.

00:27:47.243 --> 00:27:50.605
My penis started running After a man gets one dose.

00:27:50.605 --> 00:27:52.385
He knows a little about it.

00:27:52.385 --> 00:27:53.707
I'm sorry, Hold on.

00:27:53.707 --> 00:27:58.048
I got to redo that one After a man gets one dose, he knows a little about it.

00:27:58.048 --> 00:28:01.775
Sorry, I have to.

00:28:01.775 --> 00:28:02.978
I'm trying to get into character here.

00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:05.343
You did not consult a doctor.

00:28:05.343 --> 00:28:10.075
No, that's funny.

00:28:10.075 --> 00:28:17.223
So after Ryan, they called the arresting officer, William Simons, to the stand.

00:28:17.223 --> 00:28:19.306
Okay, Also thank you for the role playing.

00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:20.691
Yes, you're welcome.

00:28:20.691 --> 00:28:22.134
Thank you for the role playing.

00:28:22.134 --> 00:28:22.575
Yes, you're welcome.

00:28:22.575 --> 00:28:22.934
Thank you for uh.

00:28:22.954 --> 00:28:31.181
thank you for the interactive uh podcast so cameron started questioning him about the arrest and it turns out seer admitted to taking the ten dollars.

00:28:31.201 --> 00:28:39.722
Okay, but there was zero proof she'd given ryan the disease so there's also probably zero proof that she actually did anything with him.

00:28:39.722 --> 00:28:44.823
I mean, there's literally no proof except for word of mouth from these two people Word of mouth.

00:28:45.171 --> 00:28:56.638
He said, she said yeah exactly Literally, he said, she said so Cameron was pretty direct, asking Simons you don't know anything about the facts, you don't know if she gave you him gonorrhea or anything.

00:28:56.638 --> 00:29:23.480
And Simons admitted no, just what he told me just a chinaman, wait what okay, but then out of nowhere, in the middle of the arresting officers questioning, I guess yeah, judge, or the magistrate, yes, alice jameson so she was still, and are you gonna get into why she shouldn't have been on this?

00:29:23.580 --> 00:29:24.462
Yes, okay, cool.

00:29:25.391 --> 00:29:26.011
Out of nowhere.

00:29:26.011 --> 00:29:29.059
Magistrate Alice Jameson interrupts.

00:29:29.381 --> 00:29:29.582
Yes.

00:29:30.549 --> 00:29:35.583
Lizzie Sear, six months hard labor at McLeod.

00:29:35.950 --> 00:29:37.195
You can't just fucking do that.

00:29:37.195 --> 00:29:48.104
Cameron was stunned Well yeah, like, how does she, like she's hearing this testimony or whatever, and just says, no, fuck it Hard labor Six months.

00:29:48.390 --> 00:29:51.157
Sear didn't even have a chance to defend herself.

00:29:51.238 --> 00:29:52.221
Yeah, that's bullshit.

00:29:52.369 --> 00:29:53.916
And Cameron was furious.

00:29:53.916 --> 00:30:00.221
He said to the to the judge I shall see that your decision is overruled.

00:30:00.561 --> 00:30:01.723
Fucking A right Mm-hmm.

00:30:01.723 --> 00:30:03.175
I wish he had a gavel of his own.

00:30:03.851 --> 00:30:14.066
So it's really shocking, especially considering Jameson was appointed specifically to give women a fair trial, and it seems like she completely missed the mark.

00:30:14.066 --> 00:30:24.096
Clearly, and according to historian John McLaren, female magistrates brought a unique viewpoint to the bench, quite different than males in the same position.

00:30:24.096 --> 00:30:30.559
The difference really showed in how they dealt with the vice, especially with women, who were seen as wayward, like sex workers.

00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:44.520
They were particularly outraged by how young women were being exploited and they felt that male officers, prosecutors and judges were often too lax, unfair and even insensitive in how they applied the law.

00:30:44.741 --> 00:30:45.083
Oh dear.

00:30:45.529 --> 00:30:52.383
Now, just because they were women, it didn't mean that female magistrates were going to go easy on vagrant women.

00:30:52.383 --> 00:30:53.223
Well, of course not.

00:30:53.309 --> 00:30:58.343
Because, depending on their mindset and whatever they're going to be like, fuck this bitch.

00:30:58.343 --> 00:30:59.674
She's giving us a bad name, exactly.

00:30:59.682 --> 00:31:01.164
Exactly mindset and whatever they're going to be like.

00:31:01.164 --> 00:31:01.586
Fuck this bitch.

00:31:01.586 --> 00:31:02.747
Yeah, she's giving us a bad name, exactly exactly so.

00:31:02.747 --> 00:31:09.489
While they might have shown some leniency towards younger women or first-time offenders, they were pretty tough on anyone that was like unrepentant or hardened, so to speak.

00:31:09.489 --> 00:31:19.554
Sure, so figures like jameson and emily murphy, who was the other female magistrate at that time okay, so there's only two women magistrates at this time?

00:31:19.554 --> 00:31:25.384
Sure, they really believe that these women needed to be locked up for their own good, to reform them essentially.

00:31:25.769 --> 00:31:27.516
Yeah, because that's always worked.

00:31:27.938 --> 00:31:33.248
Maybe Jameson looked at Sears' record and decided that she needed a wake-up call or something.

00:31:33.248 --> 00:31:40.703
Okay, but in the four years leading up to her arrest, sears had been arrested a few times, mostly for being drunk and once for vagrancy.

00:31:42.375 --> 00:31:45.413
Oh, so she was arrested once prior to this For vagrancy.

00:31:45.413 --> 00:31:45.915
Yes, Okay.

00:31:47.332 --> 00:31:48.617
So she's not a first-time offender.

00:31:48.718 --> 00:31:49.240
Right, right right.

00:31:49.490 --> 00:31:53.488
The longest she'd served was 60 days for that vagrancy charge.

00:31:53.488 --> 00:31:53.869
Oh wow.

00:31:53.869 --> 00:31:59.961
So when she came before Jameson again, she got the absolute maximum sentence allowed by law.

00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:02.065
Which is the six months, mm-hmm, okay.

00:32:02.630 --> 00:32:07.142
So she actually did kind of get off relatively lightly.

00:32:07.142 --> 00:32:17.888
Jameson could have added like a hefty time or hefty fine on top of prison time, but she didn't Sure, and I will tell you like what Cyr did, okay.

00:32:17.888 --> 00:32:20.976
So Jameson was kind of in a tough spot.

00:32:20.976 --> 00:32:29.305
Cameron the lawyer, his challenge to her authority during sears trial was probably just one of many that jameson faced.

00:32:29.305 --> 00:32:34.863
Sure he'd questioned her qualifications just seven months later again, jesus.

00:32:35.625 --> 00:32:44.909
so it must have been incredibly stressful for jameson and she actually did speak about this in an interview with the Calgary Daily Herald in 1920.

00:32:44.909 --> 00:32:50.803
She said quote being the first woman magistrate was no position to excite envy, I assure you.

00:32:50.803 --> 00:32:54.881
She admitted she had to deal with a lot of prejudice from lawyers and the police.

00:32:54.881 --> 00:33:00.542
She described feeling completely unwelcome when she first started and even thought about quitting.

00:33:00.542 --> 00:33:04.880
But then she said to herself, quote well, I'm here and I'm here to stay.

00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:06.083
Okay, all right.

00:33:06.369 --> 00:33:08.699
So it's possible Jameson was just trying to prove herself.

00:33:08.990 --> 00:33:10.997
It sounds like that's a very good possibility.

00:33:10.997 --> 00:33:23.530
Hard to say, for sure, but I mean that's not uncommon, I guess, for people to do that, yeah, so to do that.

00:33:23.550 --> 00:33:32.396
Yeah, so, but historian david bright points out that in 1917, being a prostitute or a vagrant wasn't really about proving specific crimes, right, it was more about proving someone's lifestyle okay so and that's what happened with seer sure.

00:33:33.117 --> 00:33:40.116
so ryan, basically the, the john ryan basically painted a picture of her as someone who lived a certain way.

00:33:40.116 --> 00:33:44.605
He mentioned her infection, which was used to label her as being immoral.

00:33:44.605 --> 00:33:57.943
He said he'd seen her around saying that she was a known offender, and he highlighted that she was broke, had left her husband and associated with other considered undesirable.

00:33:58.089 --> 00:34:02.662
Do you think someone would really go around saying that, like saying those things?

00:34:02.662 --> 00:34:05.579
I mean, that just doesn't seem right.

00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:15.695
If there's something in it for him, I guess Well yeah, but I mean I don't know, I just find that weak.

00:34:16.998 --> 00:34:18.402
Anyway, sorry, no, that's okay.

00:34:18.402 --> 00:34:23.835
So John McKinley Cameron was not one to take defeat lightly.

00:34:24.197 --> 00:34:29.692
No, I mean he wore rubber boots to court women, so bold, I mean in case it flooded.

00:34:30.454 --> 00:34:32.541
Exactly, he was going fishing afterwards.

00:34:33.248 --> 00:34:34.554
Maybe he's got to get them trout.

00:34:34.554 --> 00:34:36.681
Yeah, I heard they got some good fishing up in Canada.

00:34:36.681 --> 00:34:38.161
My dad went fishing in Canada.

00:34:38.161 --> 00:34:40.793
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was supposed to take me.

00:34:43.898 --> 00:34:56.490
still waiting, dad, just kidding so cameron was actually known for his persistence and appearing before the alberta supreme court of appeal more than any other lawyer in a 20-year span.

00:34:56.490 --> 00:34:58.034
Wow, he's like.

00:34:58.074 --> 00:35:08.302
Fine, I'll go to your boss I'll go to your boss, fuck you man so after losing kind of like I'm sorry yeah it's kind of like I'd like to speak to the manager.

00:35:08.302 --> 00:35:09.653
I always like to speak to your manager.

00:35:10.677 --> 00:35:18.989
So after losing lizzie sears case in jameson's court, he wasn't about to let it go he's like fuck this, whether it was simple stubbornness or something deeper.

00:35:18.989 --> 00:35:24.778
He decided to challenge not only the verdict, but also Jameson's right to be a magistrate.

00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:28.157
Okay, damn, going for the guns here, oh yeah.

00:35:29.010 --> 00:35:34.922
Because if she isn't allowed on the stand, then it's going to get overturned, essentially.

00:35:35.150 --> 00:35:36.496
And he would win that case with Sear.

00:35:36.496 --> 00:35:39.396
He's basically going through the back door.

00:35:39.396 --> 00:35:40.559
Yeah, exactly yeah.

00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:41.222
Dirty.

00:35:41.889 --> 00:35:42.831
He, of course, went to.

00:35:42.932 --> 00:35:46.701
Justice David Scott of the Alberta Supreme Court.

00:35:46.701 --> 00:35:52.521
Okay, Scott dismissed his application even though he admitted he had his own doubts about women holding office.

00:35:52.521 --> 00:36:02.268
Wow, that wasn't misogynistic at all he basically said quote I have my reservations, but this isn't the right way to challenge it it's funny.

00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:04.715
It's funny that he he did not want.

00:36:04.715 --> 00:36:09.268
He clearly showed his hand that women are inferior.

00:36:09.268 --> 00:36:14.159
Yeah, and again we're talking about the 1912 yeah, 1917 to 1920.

00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:15.360
So I get it.

00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:23.012
I understand the time frame and the mindset back then, but it's like he didn't care for those people in those positions.

00:36:23.012 --> 00:36:27.635
But he's like yeah, but you still can't do it this way, so it's really kind of funny.

00:36:27.655 --> 00:36:28.911
Yeah, I agree, but no.

00:36:29.253 --> 00:36:35.434
He's like yeah, but no, it's just funny because clearly again different times 100 years ago.

00:36:35.556 --> 00:36:35.717
Yeah.

00:36:36.291 --> 00:36:40.922
And you get these people that are like women should be in the home doing my laundry and making dinner and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:41.181 --> 00:36:41.322
Yeah.

00:36:42.231 --> 00:36:46.061
But there's obviously women in these certain high positions.

00:36:46.061 --> 00:36:48.958
But he's like no, we're still not going to go about it that way.

00:36:49.179 --> 00:36:50.532
Yeah, he agreed.

00:36:50.733 --> 00:36:51.634
By his statement.

00:36:51.634 --> 00:36:55.842
Yeah, he clearly is like I agree with you, but we just can't do it that way.

00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:06.771
So I mean, at least he had some morals, even though he's a fuck Undeterred, cameron took it to the appellate division of the Supreme Court of Alberta.

00:37:06.771 --> 00:37:15.715
This time, justice Beck, stewart, cj Harvey and JJ Walsh also rejected his appeal.

00:37:15.715 --> 00:37:20.237
Oh okay, but Justice Stewart was very clear about his stance.

00:37:20.237 --> 00:37:30.702
He said, quote we should declare that in our province and in our time there is no legal reason to disqualify women from holding public office.

00:37:30.702 --> 00:37:41.085
And then he went on to say that they were returning to a more progressive view from the Middle Ages, rather than the more restrictive views that had become popular in the 19th century.

00:37:41.085 --> 00:37:46.309
So with that ruling, alberta made history.

00:37:46.309 --> 00:38:01.306
Oh shit, I always say Providence, providence to officially recognize women as legal persons with the right to hold public office.

00:38:02.411 --> 00:38:03.155
So progressive.

00:38:03.469 --> 00:38:11.182
The Calgary Daily Herald even ran a headline that said judges find that Mrs Jamison is legally appointed.

00:38:11.182 --> 00:38:12.545
Oh, Jesus Christ.

00:38:12.545 --> 00:38:16.077
But the rest of Canada?

00:38:16.077 --> 00:38:30.193
Not so so much didn't see it that way tell us about it, I will sweet jameson continued her work as magistrate and she eventually retired comfortably in 1931.

00:38:30.193 --> 00:38:34.217
Wow cameron meanwhile kept up his successful career.

00:38:34.237 --> 00:38:35.018
Good, for him.

00:38:35.179 --> 00:38:39.505
He kept practicing law into the 1930s and passed away in 1943.

00:38:39.505 --> 00:38:47.561
Oh, and now, because Jameson's ability to judge was confirmed, they also validated Sears' sentence.

00:38:47.682 --> 00:38:48.583
Of course Makes sense.

00:38:49.050 --> 00:38:56.222
So she served six months at the Northwest Mounted Police Barracks in Fort McLeod.

00:38:56.422 --> 00:38:57.125
There it is Sure.

00:38:57.670 --> 00:39:04.516
Which is about an hour and a half south of Calgary, right In pretty awful conditions it was crowded, poor ventilation.

00:39:04.710 --> 00:39:06.436
Well, you had said it's hard labor too.

00:39:06.436 --> 00:39:07.519
Oh, this is Right.

00:39:07.889 --> 00:39:11.141
Yes, but we don't know what that hard labor was, unfortunately.

00:39:12.329 --> 00:39:17.001
Yeah, I mean it could have been chopping down trees or hunting Sasquatch, we don't know.

00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:20.996
Or picking up a boulder walking 30 feet, putting down a boulder.

00:39:20.996 --> 00:39:24.043
Going back picking up a boulder walking 30 feet, putting down a boulder.

00:39:25.090 --> 00:39:27.711
The problem is when you say boulder every time.

00:39:27.711 --> 00:39:34.994
I know you're not a big Indiana Jones fan or I haven't seen them that much, but I just think of the first movie and I'm just like the boulder rolling down.

00:39:35.014 --> 00:39:38.940
So so that reference was a movie with, um, robert redford.

00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:45.835
Okay, uh, the last castle, I think, is the name of the movie james gandolfini that's right.

00:39:45.835 --> 00:39:55.972
Yeah, one of his punishments as a prisoner was to pick up a massive boulder, walk 30 feet, put it down and go back and pick up another boulder, and it was massive and heavy I guess.

00:39:56.012 --> 00:40:02.833
I just think a boulder is being bigger than someone being able to pick up, so maybe a giant rock, but either way a very large rock.

00:40:02.833 --> 00:40:10.085
Yes, okay, so in 1920 1922 yeah, good year a lizzie sear.

00:40:10.269 --> 00:40:13.713
We don't know if it's the lizzie sear, but a a Lizzie Sear was working.

00:40:14.114 --> 00:40:15.396
So there could be multiples.

00:40:16.818 --> 00:40:23.206
Lizzie Sear was working as a waitress at the King Edward hotel in Pinscher Creek near Fort McLeod.

00:40:23.206 --> 00:40:28.983
Okay, there were other people with the last name Sear there, so maybe she connected with family at that time.

00:40:28.983 --> 00:40:29.427
Sure.

00:40:29.648 --> 00:40:29.949
Possible.

00:40:30.030 --> 00:40:34.753
But after that, lizzie Sear kind of fades into historical records Obscurity, yeah, lizzie Sear kind of fades into historical records, obscurity, yeah.

00:40:34.753 --> 00:40:44.463
So it is pretty sad because it is pretty common that a lot of Matisse sex workers ended up that way.

00:40:44.463 --> 00:40:56.762
Sure, so remember I said that there was a major legal development earlier yes, you had mentioned that, yes and that the rest of Canada didn't recognize women as legal persons with the right to hold public office.

00:40:57.250 --> 00:41:02.056
So with the whole not recognizing them to be legal persons?

00:41:02.056 --> 00:41:03.697
What exactly does that?

00:41:03.717 --> 00:41:06.121
mean oh, I will tell you oh thank goodness Because.

00:41:06.121 --> 00:41:07.543
But, yes.

00:41:07.543 --> 00:41:09.164
You have to wait.

00:41:09.585 --> 00:41:10.445
Oh fucking shit.

00:41:10.690 --> 00:41:16.282
For part two of this story, which will be next week.

00:41:16.282 --> 00:41:21.603
Hey, this is a two-parter.

00:41:21.603 --> 00:41:27.315
Hey, just so you know number two, you don't have to role play with me.

00:41:27.858 --> 00:41:32.175
Oh, thank God, Good Lord.

00:41:32.175 --> 00:41:42.409
So you get to wait to see what happens I'll be waiting with baited breath I was gonna say that, but I was trying to think of something more canadian.

00:41:43.231 --> 00:41:51.094
I got nothing baited bruce, baited bruce what's it all about?

00:41:51.094 --> 00:41:54.641
Okay, this is our very first two-parter.

00:41:54.641 --> 00:41:55.603
How do you feel about that?

00:41:56.184 --> 00:42:03.775
I feel weird because we've talked about, because you don't know the ending of the story yeah, I feel like cliffhangers aren't my thang.

00:42:03.775 --> 00:42:15.018
Yeah, um, but we've talked about doing two-parters before and we just kind of squeeze it into a longer episode.

00:42:15.018 --> 00:42:25.815
We do, and we usually like to keep our episodes around a certain time frame, just, you know, because we don't want to lose Al's interest.

00:42:25.815 --> 00:42:34.217
But yeah, no, it's weird because now I don't know and it's kind of infuriating.

00:42:34.217 --> 00:42:38.635
I want to know what's all about.

00:42:41.331 --> 00:42:42.472
This beer is really good though.

00:42:42.472 --> 00:42:48.463
Well, I will tell you, it does involve what is known as the Famous Five.

00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:51.014
Fox Force Five.

00:42:51.014 --> 00:42:53.030
Do you know what movie that's from?

00:42:53.030 --> 00:42:53.612
No, pulp Fiction, great movie.

00:42:53.612 --> 00:42:54.291
Don't remember that part.

00:42:54.291 --> 00:42:54.753
Pulp Fiction.

00:42:55.594 --> 00:42:58.215
Ah yes, great movie Don't remember that part?

00:42:58.896 --> 00:43:09.007
It's the pilot she did for the TV because John Travolta's character fuck, vincent Vega took Mia Wallace out.

00:43:09.007 --> 00:43:15.090
Wow, you didn't just slam your beer down.

00:43:15.090 --> 00:43:18.213
And he wanted to know about she was an actress, but she only did a pilot.

00:43:18.213 --> 00:43:18.554
Oh, that's right.

00:43:18.554 --> 00:43:29.474
Yeah, yeah and the name of the show was fox force five okay, her character always told jokes and she told the one about the mom and tomato and dad tomato, whatever, and all that little tomato he was walking behind.

00:43:29.474 --> 00:43:32.000
Let's just catch up after she smushed him.

00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.416
Anyways, I know I didn't do it justice like a joke my mom would make.

00:43:35.456 --> 00:43:36.077
Yeah, maybe.

00:43:37.150 --> 00:43:41.617
Except for she spells ketchup like catsup, catsup Like C-A-T-S-U-P.

00:43:41.617 --> 00:43:45.057
I got that At least the last time I saw her write the word.

00:43:46.490 --> 00:43:51.822
Didn't you just show me a recipe that was with your?

00:43:51.842 --> 00:43:53.213
mom oh, potentially, yeah, definitely.

00:43:53.213 --> 00:43:57.422
Yeah, my grandma's chinking gumbo sloppy joes.

00:43:57.422 --> 00:44:00.753
But it was your mom's handwriting, right, and she wrote cats up.

00:44:00.775 --> 00:44:07.438
Yeah, because I made a comment about that actually, because I just always think it's funny when people put cats up instead of ketchup.

00:44:07.438 --> 00:44:10.673
It's usually a geographic type thing, isn't?

00:44:10.693 --> 00:44:11.014
it Well.

00:44:11.014 --> 00:44:13.956
I mean, we both grew up in Nebraska and I spell it with a.

00:44:13.956 --> 00:44:15.559
K, so I don't know.

00:44:16.141 --> 00:44:16.802
It makes sense.

00:44:16.802 --> 00:44:19.929
Nebraska corn C catsup I get it.

00:44:19.929 --> 00:44:22.016
So am I saying it wrong then, or spelling it wrong?

00:44:22.036 --> 00:44:22.699
Apparently.

00:44:23.331 --> 00:44:25.012
I'm going to Google this Catsup.

00:44:25.231 --> 00:44:28.690
versus ketchup, Kate's mom.

00:44:28.690 --> 00:44:32.521
I'm joking about the C and the corn and the catsup.

00:44:32.521 --> 00:44:33.753
I hope you understand.

00:44:33.753 --> 00:44:34.657
I'm always joking.

00:44:34.797 --> 00:44:36.574
Always, literally all the time.

00:44:38.092 --> 00:44:38.996
So I apologize.

00:44:39.610 --> 00:44:45.675
So catsup yeah, there is a reason for it right Is usually used in the South.

00:44:46.235 --> 00:44:48.242
Yeah, okay, yeah, interesting.

00:44:48.889 --> 00:44:54.563
And it originated from a Chinese fish sauce, really, which was brought to Europe and then westernized.

00:44:54.992 --> 00:45:08.429
I never heard that before that's interesting and then the heinz company did you know ketchup wasn't always green or it wasn't always red, it used to be green yes, I think I didn't know that yeah heinz company yeah, use ketchup.

00:45:08.831 --> 00:45:19.532
Yeah, but then later switched to ketchup to distinguish their product and then, and also, if I'm not mistaken, the the whole reason.

00:45:19.532 --> 00:45:21.079
Like you never knew what was actually in it.

00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:42.083
It was literally just to mask the terrible taste of the meat and try and make it better, and then it actually started being made out of tomatoes and stuff and now it's a condiment that people love that it's probably I mean, I'm not saying I'm right here by any stretch but it's got to be one of the, if not the most used one of the most used condiments ever, yeah, ever.

00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:48.844
Because burgers, fries, hot dogs, whatever it might be, lots of different shit.

00:45:50.150 --> 00:45:51.677
Does your son Xavier like ketchup?

00:45:51.677 --> 00:45:51.818
Now?

00:45:51.869 --> 00:46:00.603
Because I know for a while he wasn't into condiments, so it's funny because literally last night he likes he's very picky, as you know.

00:46:00.744 --> 00:46:00.965
Yeah.

00:46:03.014 --> 00:46:05.079
And he, there's these certain Lunchables.

00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:06.181
You've had a Lunchable before.

00:46:06.342 --> 00:46:06.623
For sure.

00:46:06.889 --> 00:46:13.735
So there's certain ones that comes with chicken nuggets yeah, and ketchup to dip them in yeah, he loves that.

00:46:14.389 --> 00:46:15.434
He likes the ketchup with it?

00:46:15.434 --> 00:46:16.112
Yeah, and ketchup to dip him in.

00:46:16.132 --> 00:46:16.836
He loves that.

00:46:16.836 --> 00:46:17.943
He likes the ketchup with it.

00:46:17.943 --> 00:46:24.297
Yeah, he dips his chicken nuggets into the ketchup and it's funny because these Lunchables, I mean they're cold, so they're cold chicken nuggets into cold ketchup.

00:46:24.376 --> 00:46:25.260
Which he doesn't really care.

00:46:26.052 --> 00:46:31.302
That doesn't bother him, he actually prefers colder food, I guess, to warmer food.

00:46:31.302 --> 00:46:39.038
I mean, when I make him a pizza, if I make him a frozen pizza at home, he'll uh he'll wait for it to cool down wait for it to be cold.

00:46:39.038 --> 00:46:46.347
Yeah, cool down, cold, whatever you want to say, but yeah, and in my kitchen this time of the year you've been there, it's chilly.

00:46:47.750 --> 00:46:50.333
So, it cools down rather quick.

00:46:50.333 --> 00:46:50.875
Yeah, dinner.

00:46:50.875 --> 00:46:56.764
Last night I actually had vesper and him had those lunchables, so it's kind of funny.

00:46:56.764 --> 00:47:09.829
But the the problem is vesper, so it comes with four nuggets, ketchup to dip it in and two cookies I'm going for the cookies well, you need to talk to my daughter oh, we'll fight for each other.

00:47:09.909 --> 00:47:10.371
Fight for him.

00:47:10.371 --> 00:47:12.715
Okay, she'll get one and I get one.

00:47:14.077 --> 00:47:17.664
You'll have to fight her for that one, because she ate both of hers.

00:47:17.664 --> 00:47:25.659
And then Xavier usually doesn't like the cookies, which is kind of odd, and they're basically like generic Oreos, yeah.

00:47:25.659 --> 00:47:27.273
So I'm like can I have them?

00:47:27.273 --> 00:47:29.773
Sure, he gave them to me, I ate them.

00:47:29.773 --> 00:47:35.056
And she finished I'm like you have to eat your chicken nugget first and she's like more cookie.

00:47:35.056 --> 00:47:37.092
I'm like you have to eat your chicken nugget first and she's like more cookie.

00:47:37.092 --> 00:47:37.875
I'm like you have to eat your chicken nugget.

00:47:37.875 --> 00:47:39.659
So she took a bite and then she ate her cookies.

00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:41.382
I'm like that's not enough.

00:47:41.382 --> 00:47:43.076
But then she starts searching for brothers.

00:47:43.076 --> 00:47:46.878
I'm like, oh shoot, maybe I shouldn't have ate those.

00:47:46.878 --> 00:47:50.115
So then I had a third one.

00:47:50.115 --> 00:47:51.561
He wanted more.

00:47:51.561 --> 00:47:52.431
I gave him the third one.

00:47:52.431 --> 00:47:54.353
I'm like can I give Vesper one of the cookies?

00:47:54.373 --> 00:48:00.038
He's like, yeah, so big brother came in the clutch there and helped his sister out.

00:48:00.038 --> 00:48:02.219
But it's super cute Anyways.

00:48:02.481 --> 00:48:04.061
How'd we go on the ketchup, ketchup talk.

00:48:04.842 --> 00:48:06.965
Ketchup, ketchup, wow.

00:48:07.005 --> 00:48:07.425
Doesn't matter.

00:48:07.626 --> 00:48:08.987
We really went on a tangent there.

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:11.030
Yeah, we did Okay.

00:48:11.030 --> 00:48:14.293
So how did you like your Mahorajah?

00:48:14.414 --> 00:48:17.456
Mahorajah, it's delicious.

00:48:17.456 --> 00:48:18.757
I finished two of them.

00:48:18.757 --> 00:48:21.981
I'm feeling it Kind of want a third.

00:48:21.981 --> 00:48:27.184
So, elle, again thank you for the suggestion on this.

00:48:27.184 --> 00:48:36.057
I know you work for them so you're a little biased, but I see why, because it was delicious and it also says Mighty Dank, smooth.

00:48:36.057 --> 00:48:37.862
They ain't joking.

00:48:38.670 --> 00:48:39.514
I liked my Limey's.

00:48:39.514 --> 00:48:42.414
I literally just opened up my second one while you were talking about your kids.

00:48:42.436 --> 00:48:46.456
Yeah, you did, but no, this was delicious.

00:48:46.456 --> 00:48:47.860
Awesome.

00:48:47.860 --> 00:48:49.971
I'm glad you like your Limey's Again.

00:48:49.971 --> 00:48:52.735
I know it's not Modelo, but it's a nice little alternative, it's an alternative.

00:48:52.735 --> 00:48:54.282
Yeah, it's a nice little alternative, it's an alternative.

00:48:54.282 --> 00:48:55.789
Yeah, it's a great alternative For something a little different.

00:48:55.789 --> 00:48:56.512
Yeah, and.

00:48:56.652 --> 00:48:58.239
I really like the bright green can.

00:48:58.239 --> 00:48:59.936
I really really like the bright green can.

00:49:00.710 --> 00:49:03.914
I mean I'll have to have a Shandy, you'll have to have one of those one of these days.

00:49:03.914 --> 00:49:05.420
Yes, it's pretty good.

00:49:05.420 --> 00:49:13.661
So, yeah, I'll have to try one of yours as well next time you have them, because I mean, I used to sell a bunch of lineys.

00:49:13.661 --> 00:49:15.684
I like their products, I like what they are.

00:49:16.833 --> 00:49:29.431
um, I don't like that they're not brewed in Chippewa Falls anymore, but so it goes, uh, it's up towards, like the northwest side of Wisconsin, towards Minnesota, kind of uh was that?

00:49:29.431 --> 00:49:31.835
I always get my, my towns mixed up.

00:49:31.835 --> 00:49:35.300
Lac La Crosse, right, is that right, mm-mm?

00:49:36.443 --> 00:49:37.324
I don't go that direction.

00:49:39.711 --> 00:49:45.891
Well, not many people do it's.

00:49:45.891 --> 00:49:48.273
I still find it funny because it's like flavor of the Northwoods.

00:49:48.273 --> 00:49:49.356
It's not the Northwoods, in my opinion.

00:49:49.356 --> 00:49:50.918
My parents are from the Northwoods.

00:49:50.918 --> 00:50:01.425
Yeah, yeah, they're from up north, that's like mid-north, okay, but either way, yeah, that's maybe me picking there, so but no, I, I like lineys, I like summer shandy.

00:50:01.425 --> 00:50:05.434
I wish they'd bring some of their old classics back, like big butt doppelbach.

00:50:05.434 --> 00:50:13.873
But either way, such a such a great logo just so you can say the name oh yeah, big butt, give me another big butt, sir.

00:50:15.614 --> 00:50:16.956
Doubleback, doublebock.

00:50:17.317 --> 00:50:17.976
Doppelbock yes.

00:50:17.996 --> 00:50:18.597
Doppelbock.

00:50:18.677 --> 00:50:22.260
Yes, yeah, super fun German word Yep, cool For sure.

00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:24.802
Well, I suppose All right, buffoons.

00:50:24.802 --> 00:50:26.244
That's it for today's episode.

00:50:26.804 --> 00:50:30.067
Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you.

00:50:30.067 --> 00:50:39.721
Next time Feeling hungry for more buffoonery, or maybe you have a burning question or a wild historical theory for us to explore hit us up on social media.

00:50:40.063 --> 00:50:44.414
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00:50:44.414 --> 00:50:48.623
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00:50:48.623 --> 00:50:50.373
We are bradley and kate.

00:50:50.693 --> 00:50:56.838
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00:50:57.371 --> 00:51:00.396
Until next time, stay curious and don't forget to rate and review us.

00:51:00.849 --> 00:51:02.938
Remember, the buffoonery never stops.

00:51:02.938 --> 00:51:15.237
Music by Corey Akers.