Oct. 8, 2024

Ötzi the Iceman

Ötzi the Iceman
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Season 1

Ever wondered how a simple hiking trip led to one of the most significant archaeological discoveries of our time? This episode of History Buffoons Podcast will take you from the light-hearted banter of our daily lives straight into the icy mysteries of the Ötztal Alps. We kick things off with a comical reflection on our hectic work schedules and a hilarious tale about a marathon client session that involved massages and facials. Our conversation naturally veers towards travel dreams—one of us dreaming of the brews at Dillon Dam Brewery in Colorado, while the other imagines an Italian adventure. Little did we know, this casual chat would seamlessly set the stage for a story steeped in ancient history.

Travel back 5,200 years as we unravel the tale of Ötzi the Iceman, an ancient mummified body discovered in the Ötztal Alps in 1991 by hikers Helmut and Erika Simon. Through advanced scientific analysis, we reveal astonishing details about Ötzi's life—from his last meal of Ibex meat and wheat grains to the harsh injuries he sustained in his final days. We discuss his well-preserved clothing and tools, and even speculate on the medicinal purposes behind his 61 tattoos. This chapter provides a vivid glimpse into the life of one of the most well-preserved ancient humans, showing us how much we can learn about our ancestors through these extraordinary discoveries.

The episode concludes with a gripping discussion about the legal battles over Ötzi's discovery rights. Follow the twists and turns of the court disputes that ensued, adding a modern-day layer of drama to this ancient story. We also share how Ötzi's legacy is preserved at the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Italy, where visitors can marvel at his frozen remains. Stay until the end for details on how to connect with us on social media, send in your questions, and share your own historical theories. As always, the buffoonery never stops, and neither does our curiosity about the past!


Sources:
Otzi the Iceman: A 5,000 year-old True Crime Murder Mystery by NOVA/PBS

https://www.iceman.it/en/the-iceman/


Otzi and the World of the Iceman

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/otzi-world-iceman/#comments

Penn Museum

https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/otzi-the-iceman/



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Chapters

00:10 - Travel Destinations and Brewery Chats

05:50 - The Mystery of Otzi's Mummified Body

19:40 - Otzi's Clothing and Tattoos

30:23 - The Legal Battle Over Otzi's Discovery

46:45 - Engage With History Buffoons Podcast

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:10.932 --> 00:00:12.833
oh hey there, oh hey there.

00:00:12.833 --> 00:00:13.835
How's it going?

00:00:13.835 --> 00:00:14.957
It's going well.

00:00:15.237 --> 00:00:17.740
I'm a little tired today yeah, yeah, you and me both.

00:00:17.740 --> 00:00:21.144
I feel like when we do this on tuesdays, it's what?

00:00:21.144 --> 00:00:23.829
Almost 3, 30, and I've been up for 12 hours.

00:00:23.908 --> 00:00:27.434
So yeah, yeah, I uh.

00:00:27.434 --> 00:00:41.524
I had a short work day today so that we can podcast, yep, and I had never wanted to get out of there so quickly I don't know what it was.

00:00:41.524 --> 00:00:51.375
I had some great, great clients today and um, and they were all lovely, but the last one, it was one person, and she did two and a half hours of services.

00:00:51.795 --> 00:00:52.316
Holy crap.

00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.631
She did an hour and a half massage and then a 60 minute facial.

00:00:57.234 --> 00:00:57.774
Both with you.

00:00:58.015 --> 00:00:58.999
And yeah, oh wow.

00:00:58.999 --> 00:01:02.945
Yeah, and it just felt like it was.

00:01:02.945 --> 00:01:08.234
It was lasting forever and she's so nice and it was deep pressure, which I really enjoy.

00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:13.673
But yeah, but two and a half hours with the same person, that's gotta, that's gotta just feel like, cause there's no change over.

00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.865
There's no change over, there's no getting up and yeah, um.

00:01:17.865 --> 00:01:27.641
So, even though it was dipped deep tissue, I was, I almost dozed off like probably 10 times, like it was so bad.

00:01:27.641 --> 00:01:29.043
I'm like my god, kate, get up, get up, get up, get up, get up.

00:01:29.043 --> 00:01:31.009
Yeah, it was, it was really rough.

00:01:31.009 --> 00:01:47.474
Um, I hate when I feel like that I can understand that yeah yeah so I've got a, I've got a question for you all right, let's do it um, if you could travel anywhere right now anywhere anywhere.

00:01:47.474 --> 00:01:49.516
Okay, where would you go?

00:01:51.022 --> 00:01:52.763
dylan damburu in colorado.

00:01:52.763 --> 00:02:00.382
I know it sounds pretty basic, but I was literally just thinking about that on my way home today.

00:02:00.382 --> 00:02:05.417
I'm like I could just keep going and I'm like, oh, I could get some.

00:02:05.417 --> 00:02:07.763
Uh, my favorite, you could just keep driving is that what you mean?

00:02:07.763 --> 00:02:09.627
You could just keep driving west.

00:02:09.627 --> 00:02:22.707
Yeah, yeah, you know, but uh, I'm like then I could get some of my favorite beard, my dylan dam brewery extra pale ale, and I could have that on the podcast yeah bring some back home.

00:02:22.707 --> 00:02:23.650
That'd be great.

00:02:24.129 --> 00:02:33.052
But and then we could we could talk about that in our podcast my random trip just to bring beer back to colorado no, the beer well, that too.

00:02:35.067 --> 00:02:38.639
Yeah, one of these days I hope to be able to crack one of those open on the podcast.

00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:39.501
We'll see.

00:02:39.501 --> 00:02:40.663
We'll see what happens.

00:02:40.663 --> 00:02:46.814
Yeah, I have no, unfortunately no plans on getting out there anytime soon, which is really depressing.

00:02:46.814 --> 00:02:48.646
I haven't been to Colorado since last year.

00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:54.532
But when you do, I'm going to be in the suitcase because I like Colorado too.

00:02:55.381 --> 00:02:56.544
We can stop by and see your family.

00:02:58.229 --> 00:02:58.871
Yes, we could.

00:02:58.871 --> 00:03:01.508
We can stop by Kearney, nebraska.

00:03:01.508 --> 00:03:11.574
I mean we could wave and I can take you to the Thunderhead Brewery where they have a beer that's great flavored.

00:03:11.574 --> 00:03:13.888
It sounds so disgusting but it's so good.

00:03:13.888 --> 00:03:15.705
It's called Thunder Punch.

00:03:15.705 --> 00:03:20.010
I endorse that beer.

00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:20.882
What's the name of the?

00:03:20.901 --> 00:03:22.867
brewery again, thunderhead.

00:03:22.867 --> 00:03:28.911
Brewery Thunderhead okay, and their beer is called Thunder Punch.

00:03:28.911 --> 00:03:33.348
I don't even know if you would call it a beer, but maybe I don't know.

00:03:33.628 --> 00:03:34.129
It could be.

00:03:34.129 --> 00:03:34.570
I don't know.

00:03:34.570 --> 00:03:35.432
I don't know much about it.

00:03:35.432 --> 00:03:36.765
I don't know anything about it actually.

00:03:36.765 --> 00:03:48.674
Yeah, I remember when we when the family, the wife and the kids and I went to Colorado last year to meet up with Al.

00:03:48.854 --> 00:03:50.376
Hey Al, hey Al.

00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:53.819
I think you had told me to try and find that night.

00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:59.269
We didn't have time because we were just staying the night and then leaving again the next day to go.

00:03:59.269 --> 00:04:02.152
Continue on to a better destination.

00:04:02.995 --> 00:04:08.992
That's right, I'll pop out of the suitcase and be like let's go grab your ID, nevermind You're old.

00:04:11.782 --> 00:04:13.046
Had to get it in there, didn't you?

00:04:13.699 --> 00:04:27.408
So the last time I went it was two years ago I think, and I sit down at the bar and I was like I want a thunder punch and they literally said what kind I was like you got more Thunder Punch and they literally said what kind I was like you got more than one.

00:04:27.408 --> 00:04:30.766
There's more than one Say what.

00:04:30.766 --> 00:04:35.247
They had like cherry and lime and I was like I need the original.

00:04:35.247 --> 00:04:36.966
What is this other bullshit?

00:04:37.286 --> 00:04:37.809
That's funny.

00:04:37.809 --> 00:04:42.447
Well, you know, they have to expand, keep it fresh, you know, add more variety.

00:04:43.389 --> 00:04:44.291
So on and so forth.

00:04:44.312 --> 00:04:51.476
That's what breweries do um so to answer your question specifically, I would go to dillon dam.

00:04:51.476 --> 00:04:55.752
If it wasn't somewhere in the states, I would go to uh, italy, I've never been.

00:04:55.752 --> 00:04:56.675
I know you've been there.

00:04:56.675 --> 00:04:58.060
I've never been there.

00:04:58.060 --> 00:05:09.235
I'd like to go to rome and all that, but yeah, that'd be fun so speaking of italy yeah that's actually where our story takes place today.

00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:11.244
What I know?

00:05:11.504 --> 00:05:23.471
it's like kismet, I never really planned this folks no, we really didn't but hey um let's go to or as kate would say it.

00:05:23.471 --> 00:05:24.552
Italy.

00:05:25.274 --> 00:05:29.026
I don't say Italy, I say Italy, I just say Italian.

00:05:30.485 --> 00:05:31.348
Why aren't you consistent?

00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:33.185
Because my name is Kate and I don't know how.

00:05:34.007 --> 00:05:34.569
And I don't.

00:05:34.569 --> 00:05:40.552
It sounds like you're at like an AA meeting, anyways.

00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.264
Hello, my name is Kate, and what am I doing here?

00:05:43.403 --> 00:05:49.589
I don't remember and I don't know how, but anyways, all right, take us to Italy.

00:05:50.377 --> 00:05:58.795
Okay, so we are going to talk about someone who lived 5,200 years ago.

00:05:59.401 --> 00:06:00.946
Is this hearsay or did this really happen?

00:06:00.946 --> 00:06:04.807
This really happened 5,200 years ago.

00:06:05.790 --> 00:06:06.110
Yes.

00:06:06.699 --> 00:06:11.206
So we're talking like 3,200 BCE.

00:06:11.807 --> 00:06:12.067
Yeah.

00:06:12.809 --> 00:06:14.110
Look at me go, I can math.

00:06:14.692 --> 00:06:15.774
Yep, I can't.

00:06:15.774 --> 00:06:22.932
I had to go look it up, yep, so we are going to talk about Utsi, utsi, mm-hmm.

00:06:23.293 --> 00:06:24.456
Like Utsi Collins.

00:06:24.737 --> 00:06:29.550
No, that's Bootsy Collins, so you know, like the O umlaut from like German.

00:06:29.872 --> 00:06:30.172
Yeah.

00:06:31.221 --> 00:06:34.386
So it's spelled O umlaut T-Z-I.

00:06:35.086 --> 00:06:36.810
Okay, uzi, uzi.

00:06:37.492 --> 00:06:39.394
Mm-hmm so.

00:06:40.822 --> 00:06:41.747
That sounds Italian.

00:06:44.341 --> 00:06:48.552
So on September 19th 1991.

00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:50.125
Six days before my birthday.

00:06:50.386 --> 00:06:51.088
Let me write that down.

00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:54.870
That's five days before Nirvana's Nevermind album came out.

00:06:56.141 --> 00:06:56.785
You're so weird.

00:06:58.124 --> 00:06:59.107
And the same year, and everything.

00:06:59.488 --> 00:07:01.425
Okay, september 19th 1991.

00:07:01.425 --> 00:07:02.009
Be there in your brain.

00:07:02.009 --> 00:07:03.617
Be there, okay, september 19th 1991.

00:07:03.617 --> 00:07:04.079
Be there in your brain.

00:07:04.098 --> 00:07:04.819
Be there Okay.

00:07:06.161 --> 00:07:10.706
Two hikers by the name of Helmut and Erika Simon.

00:07:10.887 --> 00:07:12.127
I love that his name is Helmut.

00:07:13.189 --> 00:07:22.723
Are traveling the Austria-Italy border, I was going to say Italian Italy border, in the Ozil Alps.

00:07:23.125 --> 00:07:23.526
Okay.

00:07:25.060 --> 00:07:26.641
When they discover a body.

00:07:26.661 --> 00:07:27.422
A body, yes, not a body.

00:07:27.442 --> 00:07:28.543
Okay, when they discovered body.

00:07:28.543 --> 00:07:29.884
A body, yes, not a body of water, but just a body.

00:07:30.303 --> 00:07:30.964
No, I get that.

00:07:30.964 --> 00:07:31.985
Was he frozen in ice?

00:07:33.065 --> 00:07:33.706
He was.

00:07:33.947 --> 00:07:37.990
I think I actually might have heard of this person, or at least seen something briefly on it.

00:07:38.110 --> 00:07:44.714
I don't know anything about him but, so they actually at first thought that he was a recently deceased mountaineer.

00:07:44.915 --> 00:07:47.237
Yep, so yeah, I think I did actually hear a little bit about this.

00:07:48.641 --> 00:07:48.740
Yeah.

00:07:48.740 --> 00:08:02.293
So they went to like a nearby mountain refuge hut and the next day a military officer came out and tried to remove the body but it was half frozen in ice.

00:08:02.293 --> 00:08:08.023
Makes sense body, but it was half frozen in ice makes sense.

00:08:08.023 --> 00:08:18.930
The body was eventually extracted on september 22nd and was transported to the office of the medical examiner in innsbruck, which I think is austria okay um, and together with the objects found nearby, which I will discuss.

00:08:19.129 --> 00:08:34.313
yeah, um, he had an axe, and immediate typology from just that tool, from archaeologist Conrad Spindler of the University of Innsbruck dated the mummy being at least 4,000 years old.

00:08:34.313 --> 00:08:35.115
That's crazy.

00:08:35.115 --> 00:08:38.828
Yeah, spoiler alert, he was over 5,000 years old.

00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.147
Yeah, I think we gathered that from earlier in the conversation.

00:08:42.187 --> 00:08:48.145
Already, as brief as it's been, gathered that from earlier in the conversation, already as brief as it's been.

00:08:48.145 --> 00:09:05.092
Tissue samples from the corpse and other materials were later analyzed at different scientific institutions and their results concluded that the remains belong to someone who will live between 3, 33, 59 and 3105 bc look at me, you right 32.

00:09:05.494 --> 00:09:05.955
Look at me go.

00:09:07.623 --> 00:09:09.450
Because of where the body was found.

00:09:09.450 --> 00:09:11.485
Ultimately, the body was sent to Italy.

00:09:12.328 --> 00:09:12.549
Sure.

00:09:13.059 --> 00:09:17.027
So the corpse has been extensively examined.

00:09:17.027 --> 00:09:23.620
There's rumor that he's probably been the most studied human that we've ever had.

00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:25.446
Well, I mean, if he's that old.

00:09:26.109 --> 00:09:31.173
Yeah, so he was examined, measured, x-rayed and carbon dated.

00:09:31.735 --> 00:09:31.836
Okay.

00:09:31.855 --> 00:09:41.090
Tissues and intestinal contents have been examined microscopically, as well as all the items that they found on and around his body Right.

00:09:41.090 --> 00:09:44.705
So he was only 5'2".

00:09:45.275 --> 00:09:46.360
Yeah, a real short dude.

00:09:47.003 --> 00:09:50.394
Yeah, he weighed approximately 110 pounds.

00:09:50.876 --> 00:09:52.423
How do you think they determined that?

00:09:52.423 --> 00:09:56.566
Because obviously he didn't weigh 110 when they the mummy part of them.

00:09:56.566 --> 00:09:59.581
That's pretty impressive I'm.

00:09:59.902 --> 00:10:04.015
They probably blew him up or something, or like oh, there's all of his contours.

00:10:04.015 --> 00:10:11.485
No, no, I'll see myself, I'll see myself out, yeah please do so um.

00:10:11.485 --> 00:10:20.635
At the time the body was found, it weighed only 30 pounds, five ounces See exactly that's not very much so.

00:10:20.635 --> 00:10:33.613
Analysis of pollen, dust grains and the isotopic composition of his tooth enamel indicates that he spent his childhood near South Troll Village in Italy.

00:10:33.994 --> 00:10:35.076
Okay, yeah, I like it.

00:10:35.076 --> 00:10:35.899
Yeah, okay, I like it.

00:10:36.741 --> 00:10:36.982
Yeah.

00:10:37.203 --> 00:10:37.384
Yeah.

00:10:38.115 --> 00:10:45.288
So analysis of his stomach contents found partially digested Ibex meat.

00:10:45.288 --> 00:10:47.642
It's like a type of like mountain goat.

00:10:47.923 --> 00:10:48.203
Okay.

00:10:50.317 --> 00:10:52.823
And that was all confirmed by DNA analysis.

00:10:53.105 --> 00:10:53.667
That's crazy.

00:10:54.798 --> 00:10:59.120
And it was indicated that he probably consumed this meal less than two hours before death.

00:11:00.244 --> 00:11:02.881
Wow, at least he didn't die hungry.

00:11:04.796 --> 00:11:16.883
So wheat grains were also present in Utsi's stomach, okay, and they even discovered charcoal particles in his lower intestine, which indicates that he cooked or dried out the meat he consumed.

00:11:17.023 --> 00:11:18.166
Oh, sure, yeah, that makes sense.

00:11:18.306 --> 00:11:27.389
Yeah, yeah, and Utsi also consumed wild goat, which is a different type of wild goat.

00:11:27.615 --> 00:11:29.402
I say redundant, but okay.

00:11:30.024 --> 00:11:39.749
Yeah, and they also found einkorn and barley grains, flax and poppy seeds and various berry seeds.

00:11:40.070 --> 00:11:42.200
Okay, a well-rounded meal, I guess.

00:11:42.721 --> 00:11:52.261
Yeah, they actually also found some of his hair nearby, really yeah, they think it was beard hair.

00:11:52.602 --> 00:11:57.105
Okay, I mean it would make sense that he would have had a beard back in that time.

00:11:57.975 --> 00:12:02.284
Yeah, so they used the hair analysis to also examine his diet.

00:12:03.395 --> 00:12:05.202
They really were fascinated by his diet.

00:12:06.297 --> 00:12:09.443
Mm-hmm, because he had food still in his belly.

00:12:09.715 --> 00:12:12.437
Well, I know, which is crazy, I know.

00:12:12.437 --> 00:12:16.017
Didn't they find a mammoth like that too that still had food in its stomach?

00:12:16.518 --> 00:12:17.701
Yeah, I believe I heard that.

00:12:17.721 --> 00:12:18.744
And it froze or something like that.

00:12:18.744 --> 00:12:23.158
Stay tuned for a future episode.

00:12:23.158 --> 00:12:27.846
We're going to continue our frozen section, I guess.

00:12:27.846 --> 00:12:29.328
Anyways, sorry.

00:12:36.034 --> 00:12:49.929
So the pollen was very well preserved, with the cells inside remaining intact, indicating that it had been fresh and, because of the type of pollen, it suggested that Utsi died sometime in the late spring or early summer.

00:12:50.190 --> 00:12:50.429
Okay.

00:12:51.176 --> 00:12:56.028
And the icorn wheat that I mentioned earlier is also harvested in late summer.

00:12:56.615 --> 00:12:57.639
So that makes sense, yeah.

00:12:58.142 --> 00:13:02.304
Yeah, so late summer hadn't happened yet.

00:13:02.304 --> 00:13:09.307
So the speculation is that he has stored this wheat from the previous crop, previous year's crop.

00:13:09.448 --> 00:13:09.668
Right.

00:13:10.416 --> 00:13:35.163
In the hair there were also trace amounts of copper and arsenic, which indicates that he was probably a metal worker a metal worker oh wow and with him he had a very rare copper axe and apparently this axe is just is a big deal like just how it was made, um, what it was made out of.

00:13:35.163 --> 00:13:39.855
It was a pretty big deal to archaeologists is it in the museum?

00:13:40.135 --> 00:13:41.398
a museum in italy somewhere?

00:13:41.979 --> 00:13:42.740
it is awesome.

00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:45.264
Yes, yes, um.

00:13:45.264 --> 00:13:55.163
So the the ore um the copper ore was mined in tuscany, so like they can even pinpoint that that's wild that they can do that.

00:13:55.163 --> 00:13:57.326
I know it's so cool.

00:13:57.846 --> 00:14:00.591
Even like the pinpoint, like where he was, he grew up.

00:14:01.735 --> 00:14:02.275
That's crazy.

00:14:02.275 --> 00:14:09.062
So Utsi's copper axe blade was 99.7% pure copper.

00:14:09.062 --> 00:14:11.565
Wow, that's wild yeah.

00:14:11.565 --> 00:14:16.269
So they think that Utsi was involved in, like copper smelting.

00:14:16.708 --> 00:14:17.190
Smelting.

00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:19.631
Sure Smelting, yeah, yeah.

00:14:19.631 --> 00:14:25.192
So they also examined proportions of Utsi's tibia, femur and pelvis.

00:14:25.192 --> 00:14:43.322
Okay, they also like obviously did his arms, and his arms didn't have like a lot of wear and tear, but his tibia, femur and pelvis were almost kind of like shortened, like compressed a little bit, as you would, um, because of gravity.

00:14:43.322 --> 00:14:50.341
But this this also suggests that he did a ton of walking sure so he's in the alps right.

00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:55.201
So he's walking up and down, and up and down, and up and down do you think he was going to search for more copper?

00:14:57.475 --> 00:15:00.923
I don't know I mean, why else would you go up?

00:15:00.923 --> 00:15:04.615
I don't even know if there's copper in the Alps but I have no idea.

00:15:05.517 --> 00:15:08.561
But so this is pretty interesting.

00:15:08.561 --> 00:15:13.148
They have done a DNA analysis on.

00:15:13.148 --> 00:15:15.780
Utsi in February 2012.

00:15:15.780 --> 00:15:19.062
And they indicated that he was lactose intolerant.

00:15:19.062 --> 00:15:19.716
What?

00:15:21.101 --> 00:15:21.383
Really.

00:15:22.758 --> 00:15:23.259
That's weird.

00:15:23.259 --> 00:15:27.802
He also had a brain injury.

00:15:28.716 --> 00:15:31.561
Yeah, because he was killed by somebody else.

00:15:32.484 --> 00:15:35.003
He thinks I was going to get there.

00:15:35.003 --> 00:15:54.063
He had periodontitisitis, which is worn teeth cavities, and gum disease okay um, they think that these oral pathologies probably were brought about by his heavy grain and high carbohydrate diet sure and lack of dental care.

00:15:54.063 --> 00:16:06.861
Yeah, he had rib fractures which they found during a CT scan, and that was probably potentially from the ice crushing his body over at Millennia Sure.

00:16:06.861 --> 00:16:09.423
He had gallbladder stones.

00:16:09.423 --> 00:16:13.100
I had gallstones once and he was shot with an arrow.

00:16:13.402 --> 00:16:14.817
He sure was Sorry.

00:16:14.817 --> 00:16:18.600
I jumped the gun there before I heard about it.

00:16:19.416 --> 00:16:23.385
He also had a pre-existing condition of heart disease.

00:16:23.767 --> 00:16:24.168
Oh dear.

00:16:24.895 --> 00:16:26.119
And Lyme disease.

00:16:26.119 --> 00:16:27.803
What Uh-huh.

00:16:28.065 --> 00:16:28.645
That's crazy.

00:16:29.316 --> 00:16:39.769
He had a cut like a deep cut in his hand that was probably received 24 to 48 hours before his death.

00:16:39.769 --> 00:16:42.600
Okay, it was potentially a defensive wound.

00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.059
I could see that he had a broken nose.

00:16:45.400 --> 00:16:45.942
Oh, poor guy.

00:16:46.335 --> 00:16:47.721
He had back pain.

00:16:48.475 --> 00:16:49.881
How do you know he had back pain?

00:16:50.575 --> 00:16:53.585
Because the spine is decompressed.

00:16:53.804 --> 00:16:54.025
Okay.

00:16:55.576 --> 00:16:59.986
He had intestinal parasites called whipworm Whipworm.

00:17:01.076 --> 00:17:02.100
That doesn't sound pleasant.

00:17:02.100 --> 00:17:09.057
He had frostbite oh yeah, I mean he probably fell Once he got shot.

00:17:09.057 --> 00:17:11.184
He probably fell in the snow, ice, whatever.

00:17:11.184 --> 00:17:17.655
So, yeah, makes sense so yeah, makes sense.

00:17:17.675 --> 00:17:27.582
Utzi's lungs were examined endoscopically and when were found to be blackened by suit, probably due to his frequent proximity to fires right with uh smelting and all and you can relate to this one.

00:17:27.582 --> 00:17:37.884
He had hip and knee joint pain from lack of cartilage hey, that sounds like hey I'm a little taller than 5'2", though, and it's not the hippie yet, just the niece.

00:17:38.226 --> 00:17:41.089
Yeah, we'll get there Plenty of time.

00:17:45.317 --> 00:17:47.134
He had no fingernails.

00:17:47.134 --> 00:17:49.904
However, they found two nearby.

00:17:49.904 --> 00:17:58.008
I don't know how you can be outside in the rock, in the snow, in the Alps and find two fingernails.

00:17:58.909 --> 00:17:59.269
Not even.

00:17:59.269 --> 00:18:02.585
Well, yeah, that's pretty amazing that they found them.

00:18:03.676 --> 00:18:03.998
But how?

00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.105
I wonder how they were removed.

00:18:07.105 --> 00:18:15.175
I don't know, just over time, because of his decomposing a little bit or something, who knows, but obviously he was pretty well preserved, though he was that's crazy.

00:18:15.132 --> 00:18:28.125
So on the fingernails he had three bows lines, a little bit or something, who knows, but obviously he was pretty well preserved though he was, that's, that's crazy so on the fingernails he had three bows lines, which indicates he was six sick three times in the last six months oh, wow yeah, okay.

00:18:28.125 --> 00:18:33.919
Um, it is said that his last sickness was two months before he died and lasted two weeks.

00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:44.425
Poor guy they even know how long it lasted and that's just the weirdest thing yeah, that's crazy so his skin?

00:18:45.207 --> 00:18:58.748
um, he was actually found without an epidermis, so his skin, his, he was down to the dermis layer, sure, um, and that was due to the ice makes sense yeah, um, and he was essentially, was essentially freeze, dried like a raisin.

00:18:58.748 --> 00:19:08.547
Well, I mean so was he actually taller before that.

00:19:08.654 --> 00:19:10.903
Like you know, a grape shrinks to a raisin.

00:19:10.903 --> 00:19:13.123
Was he like a regular human being?

00:19:13.123 --> 00:19:14.221
They?

00:19:14.221 --> 00:19:16.855
Measure the bones not the skin I'm joking like a regular human being.

00:19:16.875 --> 00:19:18.157
they measure they measure the bones, not the skin.

00:19:18.157 --> 00:19:18.479
I'm joking, um.

00:19:18.479 --> 00:19:24.876
They also indicated that he probably had a lot of low, like low, body fat percentage, like they.

00:19:24.876 --> 00:19:27.702
They mentioned in this in a reference I'll tell you about.

00:19:27.702 --> 00:19:28.525
Um.

00:19:28.625 --> 00:19:35.766
They reference an olympic wrestler oh so he was pretty, uh, pretty fit yeah so he had a six pack.

00:19:35.766 --> 00:19:37.189
I have a keg.

00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:49.582
So this is what he wore, because that was also nearby, oh okay, so they found him with nothing on basically.

00:19:49.582 --> 00:19:51.067
Yeah, okay.

00:19:51.067 --> 00:19:57.719
So there was a sheepskin coat and loincloth, ooh, loincloth, ooh loincloth.

00:19:57.719 --> 00:20:06.925
He had bearskin leather-soled shoes Wow, and they were stuffed with grass for insulation like socks.

00:20:07.086 --> 00:20:07.326
Sure.

00:20:08.508 --> 00:20:14.791
And they were really wide, so uh and waterproof and that was probably designed so he could walk in the snow.

00:20:23.394 --> 00:20:24.936
Yeah, kind of like ancient snowshoes.

00:20:24.957 --> 00:20:26.798
Basically, yeah, yeah, fully, fully shoot, I guess, either way.

00:20:26.798 --> 00:20:27.640
Yeah, I don't know what I'm saying.

00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:35.469
He also had leggings made from deer hide, okay, and a bear skin cap and it had a leather chin strap wow, that's.

00:20:35.509 --> 00:20:35.910
Impressive.

00:20:35.930 --> 00:21:00.737
Yeah, cute, cute it's gonna be the rage this this fall and winter leather chin strap yeah, bear hat you know, he um wore a woven grass cape or cloak okay um, it was indicated that maybe he could have also used it as a blanket or, you know, slept under it yeah at night.

00:21:00.737 --> 00:21:13.022
Yeah, his belt had a pouch sewn into it which contained a bunch of useful little things a scraper, a drill, a flint flake, a bone, all and dried fungus.

00:21:13.022 --> 00:21:13.824
Why would?

00:21:13.824 --> 00:21:15.306
What's up with the dried fungus?

00:21:15.306 --> 00:21:17.148
It's probably medicinal.

00:21:17.469 --> 00:21:18.210
Oh, fair enough.

00:21:18.891 --> 00:21:35.222
Yeah, so Irish and Italian researchers were able to undertake an analysis of mitochondrial DNA from six different items of the body's clothing, and they ended up publishing all the results in scientific reports.

00:21:35.222 --> 00:21:37.922
Oh nice, so they're making history here.

00:21:38.163 --> 00:21:38.604
Well, right.

00:21:41.036 --> 00:21:48.166
So there were also shoelaces made from cattle, cattle, mm-hmm.

00:21:48.166 --> 00:21:48.548
Okay.

00:21:48.548 --> 00:21:50.009
And a quiver.

00:21:50.009 --> 00:21:51.078
Do you know what a quiver?

00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:51.299
is.

00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:52.619
It's what you put your arrows in.

00:21:53.201 --> 00:21:56.564
Yes, so his quiver was made out of wild deer.

00:21:56.564 --> 00:22:06.367
Okay, and the fur hat that I mentioned the bearskin fur hat was actually made from a genetic lineage of our brown bear.

00:22:06.788 --> 00:22:07.128
Oh, wow.

00:22:07.890 --> 00:22:11.080
Yeah, so the tools that he carried, the quiver.

00:22:11.080 --> 00:22:14.407
He had a fire-making kit.

00:22:14.407 --> 00:22:21.857
He had a knife made with an ash tree handle do they know what the blade was made out of?

00:22:22.117 --> 00:22:23.059
did it say that?

00:22:24.021 --> 00:22:27.388
uh, I don't think I wrote that, because he had a copper axe.

00:22:27.509 --> 00:22:28.195
I was just curious.

00:22:28.215 --> 00:22:46.638
Yeah, I think it is probably stone of some kind oh, okay yeah, um, he had a u-tree long bow u-tree long bow y-e-w you yeah okay, he um.

00:22:46.818 --> 00:23:08.688
It was 72 inches long wow, that is long and it was it was rough and unfinished okay so one of the speculation um points is that it was rough and unfinished because he was being hunted sure and he needed to make himself some defensive weapons real fast.

00:23:08.688 --> 00:23:19.057
So the quiver holds 14 arrows, but only two of them had arrowheads okay again suggesting that he was working really fast to try to get stuff done.

00:23:19.057 --> 00:23:31.896
Yeah, he carried berries um birch bark and mushrooms yeah and um his fire kit was filled with various plants flint and pyrite.

00:23:31.896 --> 00:23:36.720
Okay, okay, this is quite interesting.

00:23:37.181 --> 00:23:43.023
He had 61 tattoos 61 tattoos on his body.

00:23:43.023 --> 00:23:44.766
Yes, wow.

00:23:45.665 --> 00:23:48.028
So the epidermis is gone, right.

00:23:48.028 --> 00:23:51.329
But, but tattoo ink goes down to the dermis.

00:23:51.410 --> 00:23:51.690
Sure.

00:23:52.670 --> 00:23:54.451
So it could still be seen.

00:23:54.652 --> 00:23:56.833
Right, were they able to decipher a lot of them?

00:24:00.601 --> 00:24:05.209
So there were 19 groups of these tattoos and they were all in black lines.

00:24:06.017 --> 00:24:06.579
Oh, okay.

00:24:07.457 --> 00:24:09.183
Like parallel lines.

00:24:09.183 --> 00:24:18.108
They would run along the longitudinal axis of his body to both sides of his spine.

00:24:18.368 --> 00:24:18.730
Okay.

00:24:19.816 --> 00:24:24.967
And there was a cross mark behind his right knee and on the right ankle.

00:24:25.468 --> 00:24:25.647
Hmm.

00:24:26.394 --> 00:24:29.624
And then additional parallel lines on the left wrist.

00:24:30.105 --> 00:24:30.366
Okay.

00:24:31.076 --> 00:24:39.888
The greatest concentration of markings were found on his legs, which together was about 12 groups of lines.

00:24:40.250 --> 00:24:47.806
Wow, I mean the fact that he had so like was the cross, like the cross that we know it from, like Christianity cross.

00:24:48.166 --> 00:24:51.429
No, no, it was more like an X so to speak.

00:24:51.429 --> 00:24:52.434
Oh gotcha, okay yeah.

00:24:53.397 --> 00:24:54.883
I mean, I figured not, but you know.

00:24:55.163 --> 00:24:55.263
Yeah.

00:24:56.638 --> 00:24:58.575
That would have been really wild.

00:24:59.256 --> 00:25:09.530
A microscopic examination of samples collected from the tattoos revealed that they were created from pigment manufactured out of fireplace ash or soot.

00:25:09.530 --> 00:25:21.063
The pigment was then rubbed into these small linear incisions and it was suggested that Utsi was repeatedly tattooed in the same locations, since the majority of them are quite dark.

00:25:21.063 --> 00:25:28.196
Okay, in speculation that it was somehow a pain relief similar to acupuncture or acupressure.

00:25:28.498 --> 00:25:29.199
That's interesting.

00:25:29.199 --> 00:25:31.429
So it wasn't even just for.

00:25:31.429 --> 00:25:37.029
I killed nine deer and I got nine lines on my whatever my back hurts.

00:25:37.772 --> 00:25:41.809
Yeah, so longitudinal lines that's like up and down, right.

00:25:43.291 --> 00:25:44.253
Uh, yes.

00:25:44.693 --> 00:25:46.195
Longitudinal latitude.

00:25:46.856 --> 00:26:00.970
Oh my God, I'm not much of a map reader reflexology and some other Chinese therapies.

00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:06.836
there are meridian lines of the body, so I could understand if longitudinal means like north south.

00:26:07.105 --> 00:26:10.711
Okay, yeah, sure, let's go with that until someone proves us wrong.

00:26:10.711 --> 00:26:15.771
Yeah, text us, let us know.

00:26:16.746 --> 00:26:21.936
So many of Utsi's tattoos originally went unnoticed because they were quite difficult to see.

00:26:22.218 --> 00:26:22.438
Sure.

00:26:23.326 --> 00:26:24.646
In 2015,.

00:26:24.646 --> 00:26:39.291
Researchers photographed the body using non-invasive multispectral techniques to capture images on different light wavelengths that were imperceptible by humans, and that is where they saw most like his tattoos.

00:26:39.291 --> 00:26:41.737
Sure, yeah, that's cool.

00:26:41.737 --> 00:26:44.374
Also, he had brown eyes, in case you were wondering.

00:26:45.685 --> 00:26:46.832
How do they figure that out?

00:26:46.832 --> 00:26:48.710
Cause his eyes clearly were gone.

00:26:49.531 --> 00:26:50.032
Genetics.

00:26:50.634 --> 00:26:51.696
I guess Wow.

00:26:53.026 --> 00:26:54.290
Actually his eyes were still there.

00:26:54.672 --> 00:26:55.153
Were they really.

00:26:55.744 --> 00:26:56.867
His eyes were still intact.

00:26:57.549 --> 00:26:58.172
That's impressive.

00:26:58.172 --> 00:27:00.165
Yeah, cause I wouldn't have guessed that.

00:27:00.165 --> 00:27:14.009
But well, clearly I didn't, because I said they must have been gone I was shown up so it was this year, nope, last year, it was last year.

00:27:14.289 --> 00:27:15.750
We're in 2024.

00:27:15.750 --> 00:27:17.571
I'm talking about 2023.

00:27:17.811 --> 00:27:18.352
Oh geez.

00:27:19.893 --> 00:27:28.157
They did a high coverage genome test so his DNA primarily reflects Anatolian farmer ancestry.

00:27:28.718 --> 00:27:28.917
Okay.

00:27:28.978 --> 00:27:31.519
More so than any other European population.

00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.300
So what does that really mean then?

00:27:34.040 --> 00:27:34.881
It means he's a farmer.

00:27:35.521 --> 00:27:36.382
Oh, that's all that meant.

00:27:37.363 --> 00:27:37.942
No, I don't know.

00:27:39.505 --> 00:27:40.626
I thought he was a farmer.

00:27:40.646 --> 00:27:41.127
Oh, that's all that meant.

00:27:41.127 --> 00:27:41.448
No, I don't know.

00:27:41.448 --> 00:27:42.088
I thought it was a smelter.

00:27:42.088 --> 00:27:46.455
It came from the farmer, the anatolian farmer ancestry.

00:27:47.396 --> 00:27:56.912
Let's look up what anatolia is that kind of like uh 21 and me or whatever anatoli, whatever farmer, farmers onlycom?

00:27:56.912 --> 00:28:02.036
No, maybe not.

00:28:02.457 --> 00:28:06.519
Okay, so Anatolian is unknown.

00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:07.981
I have no idea what that is.

00:28:08.321 --> 00:28:08.622
All right.

00:28:08.622 --> 00:28:13.890
Well, we didn't know before and we don't know now, so let's keep on trucking Some somebody educate me.

00:28:13.890 --> 00:28:19.996
Someone leave Kate a voicemail on our website to explain what that is.

00:28:20.678 --> 00:28:27.615
Yeah, so scientists also discovered that Utsi had intact blood cells.

00:28:27.615 --> 00:28:33.497
Really, these are considered the oldest complete human blood cells ever identified.

00:28:33.805 --> 00:28:35.551
Does that mean, we can clone them?

00:28:36.093 --> 00:28:52.857
Yes, if you listen to our last episode on baba venga we're gonna be there soon yeah, like real soon we're gonna have cloning down to a t yeah, yeah, not just goats or what was the what was the two-headed goat, or whatever we had back in the 90s?

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:53.480
what was?

00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:55.748
that all I remember is dolly the sheep.

00:28:55.748 --> 00:28:56.529
That's what.

00:28:56.549 --> 00:28:57.913
That's what I'm talking about, not a goat.

00:28:57.953 --> 00:29:03.884
Yeah, dolly the sheep, yep, yep, yep.

00:29:03.884 --> 00:29:11.218
So most bodies, this old blood cells, are either shrunken or like mere remnants, but Utsi's had the same dimensions as living red blood cells.

00:29:11.826 --> 00:29:14.134
I wonder why that is Like what was.

00:29:15.384 --> 00:29:16.790
He was just that well-preserved.

00:29:16.984 --> 00:29:21.395
I say because that's impressive, honestly yeah.

00:29:21.415 --> 00:29:21.737
All right.

00:29:21.737 --> 00:29:29.374
Okay, so here's what scientists and archaeologists think happened to him.

00:29:29.575 --> 00:29:30.415
Like Dr Jones.

00:29:31.577 --> 00:29:31.978
Who's that?

00:29:32.699 --> 00:29:33.099
Indiana.

00:29:33.099 --> 00:29:45.130
Oh there, it is there it is, should we just keep uncomfortably laughing about that really terrible joke I did.

00:29:45.891 --> 00:29:53.815
Well, I don't really watch those movies, and it's not because they don't interest me, I just would rather watch Star Wars.

00:29:54.335 --> 00:29:55.194
Well, I mean, who wouldn't?

00:29:55.194 --> 00:29:56.996
But he's also in Star Wars.

00:29:57.336 --> 00:29:57.676
Yeah, I know.

00:29:57.676 --> 00:30:02.838
That's why I said I'd rather watch Star Wars If I want to see, if I want to see what's his name?

00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:05.020
I'm waiting for you to I know what it is.

00:30:05.060 --> 00:30:06.560
Harrison Harrison Ford.

00:30:06.560 --> 00:30:07.642
I will watch Star Wars.

00:30:07.642 --> 00:30:08.823
There you go.

00:30:08.883 --> 00:30:09.182
Okay.

00:30:09.403 --> 00:30:10.282
Woo, that was rough.

00:30:10.282 --> 00:30:23.141
Okay, here we go it was late spring, early summer, correct, and it was in the Alpine range at about 2,500 meter elevation.

00:30:23.345 --> 00:30:24.071
How many feet?

00:30:24.071 --> 00:30:27.309
Is that A lot For our American listening folks?

00:30:27.790 --> 00:30:28.313
It's a lot or.

00:30:28.333 --> 00:30:29.435
English, it's a lot.

00:30:29.435 --> 00:30:29.817
How many?

00:30:29.817 --> 00:30:31.150
2,500 meters?

00:30:31.853 --> 00:30:32.053
Yeah.

00:30:32.506 --> 00:30:34.097
All right, I'm going to work on that while you keep talking.

00:30:35.326 --> 00:30:40.192
I didn't do the Feet what's it called?

00:30:41.054 --> 00:30:45.944
Conversion, conversion, woo Alright, so 2,500 meters.

00:30:47.288 --> 00:30:49.375
And then keep that website up Because I've got a couple more.

00:30:49.394 --> 00:30:54.317
Oh cool, that would put you at 8,202.1 feet.

00:30:54.317 --> 00:30:55.490
That's pretty high up there.

00:30:56.489 --> 00:31:07.013
Like I said, I've been higher in colorado, though not because I smoked weed so 33 hours before his death, okay.

00:31:07.013 --> 00:31:16.433
He descended to 1200 meters above sea level on the southern side of the mountain that's quite a drop from 2500.

00:31:16.433 --> 00:31:19.920
Yeah, I mean that's 1,300 meters.

00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:27.298
Approximately 24 hours before his death, he got a debilitating cut on his right hand.

00:31:27.585 --> 00:31:29.192
Yeah, you had said that, right hand, yep.

00:31:30.806 --> 00:31:35.497
Also potentially creating bruising on his body and head, as if he was roughed up.

00:31:36.465 --> 00:31:41.077
Yeah, because they pretty much guessed it's defensive wounds that he got the cut right.

00:31:41.077 --> 00:31:44.996
He was being attacked by a knife-wielding man or something.

00:31:45.906 --> 00:31:46.790
Or group, we don't know.

00:31:48.269 --> 00:31:48.811
Or a caribou.

00:31:50.185 --> 00:31:55.076
He grabbed some moss and gripped it in his hand.

00:31:55.076 --> 00:31:57.932
Okay, perhaps running for his life.

00:31:57.932 --> 00:32:12.655
Yeah, that would make sense perhaps because of his injured hand, he could not finish the arrows and he couldn't finish his bowstring, as it wasn't smoothed out um, or a notch wasn't made for the arrows or the bowstring so it was.

00:32:12.655 --> 00:32:19.317
It was a rough one sure I mean if you had a giant cut in your hand and you use your hands to do everything.

00:32:19.664 --> 00:32:24.409
Yeah, it's going to be a little difficult to finish some things Especially when you're being hunted.

00:32:25.311 --> 00:32:29.539
Yeah, exactly, if I got a giant cut in my hand, I could not be a massage therapist.

00:32:29.820 --> 00:32:30.684
Not for a while, until I healed.

00:32:30.684 --> 00:32:32.790
Yeah, that'd take a bit.

00:32:33.353 --> 00:32:33.532
Ouch.

00:32:33.934 --> 00:32:34.115
Yeah.

00:32:34.644 --> 00:32:38.247
Okay, so about 8 to 13 hours before his death he ate.

00:32:38.267 --> 00:32:40.288
Okay, so about 8 to 13 hours before his death, he ate, he had a meal.

00:32:40.288 --> 00:32:42.109
Well, you gotta get hungry, you gotta get some energy in you.

00:32:42.769 --> 00:32:51.976
Yeah, but he potentially saw traces of his attacker coming, so he ascended once more, going above 3,000 meters.

00:32:52.316 --> 00:32:58.799
Oh, so above 3,000 meters would be a little bit shy of 10,000 feet, 98, 42.

00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:07.494
Four hours before his death, he ate again, and this was his last meal Sure was because it was four hours before his death.

00:33:07.494 --> 00:33:13.276
In this pass it's questioned if he was going to continue up the pass.

00:33:13.616 --> 00:33:14.238
Or go back down.

00:33:15.787 --> 00:33:18.154
But he was shot with an arrow to his back.

00:33:19.185 --> 00:33:20.391
Where in his back did it say?

00:33:21.967 --> 00:33:23.652
It was like near his shoulder Sure.

00:33:23.652 --> 00:33:24.414
His left shoulder.

00:33:24.535 --> 00:33:24.756
Okay.

00:33:25.326 --> 00:33:27.333
Utsi died quickly but painfully.

00:33:27.333 --> 00:33:29.730
I'm sure he essentially bled out.

00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:38.390
Yeah, he may have hit his head or have been struck as he lay dying, which is where he got his brain injury, gotcha, as he lay dying which is where he got his brain injury.

00:33:38.390 --> 00:33:45.234
Gotcha, Either his killer or someone else, I would imagine the killer yanked the arrow shaft out of his back.

00:33:45.414 --> 00:33:50.077
Well, I would imagine those are hard to come by back then, or you had to make all your own, so he probably wanted.

00:33:50.077 --> 00:33:52.220
I'm going to kill someone else with this.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:54.760
But the arrowhead remained.

00:33:55.122 --> 00:33:56.061
Oh, it got stuck in there.

00:34:00.565 --> 00:34:02.587
And scientists did not discover that arrowhead in his body.

00:34:02.607 --> 00:34:04.371
For 10 years, so they found it in 2001.

00:34:04.371 --> 00:34:10.500
Sure, all right yeah yeah, let's go with that.

00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:13.677
How do you think they missed that for the 10 years?

00:34:13.677 --> 00:34:15.905
I mean, I know they're obviously not trying.

00:34:15.905 --> 00:34:18.708
They're trying to preserve the body and everything yeah, yeah.

00:34:18.728 --> 00:34:25.739
So that's going to be the biggest feat is they're trying not to increase decomp.

00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:26.260
Right.

00:34:26.965 --> 00:34:31.277
So they haven't frozen much more often than they do thought.

00:34:32.510 --> 00:34:33.257
Oh, I would imagine.

00:34:33.257 --> 00:34:33.518
Yeah.

00:34:34.083 --> 00:34:37.509
Yeah, so today he is still kept frozen, okay.

00:34:37.509 --> 00:34:45.438
Yeah, so today he is still kept frozen in the South Tyrol Museum of Archaeology in Bolzano, South Tyrol, Italy.

00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:49.032
That's a lot of words for a place I know.

00:34:51.045 --> 00:34:51.284
But it's in.

00:34:51.304 --> 00:34:51.585
Bolzano, Italy.

00:34:51.585 --> 00:34:56.335
Is he just like in their freezer storage or is he like on display?

00:34:56.335 --> 00:34:57.637
He's just in storage.

00:34:58.137 --> 00:34:58.639
He's both.

00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:10.668
Oh, really yeah yeah, I'll show you a picture okay um, but that whole facility, that whole museum is dedicated just to him he's got an entire museum just for himself.

00:35:10.668 --> 00:35:15.097
That's impressive so get this the discovery of utsy.

00:35:15.097 --> 00:35:21.429
He sparked a legal battle over ownership rights and the title of the discoverer, I know.

00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:24.030
Can we just be happy that something this cool?

00:35:24.432 --> 00:35:24.894
happened.

00:35:26.304 --> 00:35:35.311
So Helma and Erica Simon, the original finders, claimed a 25% share of the find's value, as per Italian law.

00:35:35.311 --> 00:35:44.351
Despite being offered that symbolic sum, they pursued a legal case to be recognized as Uzi's official discoverers.

00:35:44.664 --> 00:35:45.670
Well, which makes sense.

00:35:46.865 --> 00:35:51.416
The court ruled in their favor, but the amount they sought was disputed.

00:35:51.936 --> 00:35:52.398
Of course.

00:35:52.826 --> 00:35:56.115
There wasn't anything about how much they asked for Okay.

00:35:57.166 --> 00:35:58.311
I'm sure they asked for a lot more.

00:36:00.704 --> 00:36:09.449
Meanwhile two additional individuals emerged of course each, each claiming to have discovered utsy before the simons did but did.

00:36:09.668 --> 00:36:10.550
How do they prove that?

00:36:10.952 --> 00:36:32.190
magdalena, a slovenian climber, asserted that she found the body first and asked helmet simon to take photographs oh, bullshit another woman, sandra, from switzerland, claimed to have found utzi before the simons and even spat on the body to mark her discovery did they ever find, uh, some of her dna on him?

00:36:32.190 --> 00:36:34.793
Um, they didn't.

00:36:34.793 --> 00:36:38.777
No, they did not do any kind of DNA analysis on a potential.

00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:40.320
Probably because it's not there.

00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:40.701
Yeah.

00:36:40.701 --> 00:36:50.679
So these rival claims caused significant distress to Erica Simon, who vehemently denied the women's accounts.

00:36:50.679 --> 00:37:00.987
The court heard the cases and the dispute actually dragged on for years, with one claimant stating that her attempts to contact the court had even been ignored.

00:37:00.987 --> 00:37:18.474
Wow, the legal battle over utsy's discovery continued after helmet simon's death in 2004 okay in 2006, a court finally ruled in favor of the simons, granting them a finders fee and ordering the government to cover their legal costs.

00:37:18.974 --> 00:37:19.335
Okay.

00:37:20.445 --> 00:37:25.496
Erica Simon subsequently lowered her claim to 150,000 euro.

00:37:25.757 --> 00:37:26.018
Sure.

00:37:27.105 --> 00:37:39.719
The provincial government countered by arguing that the cost of preserving Utsi and establishing a museum should offset the finder's fees, offering only 50,000 euro Good.

00:37:39.759 --> 00:37:39.998
Lord.

00:37:39.998 --> 00:37:43.994
But if that's the case, wouldn't she get like profits from the museum?

00:37:43.994 --> 00:37:49.418
Then I mean because she's kind of basically buying into the museum.

00:37:49.418 --> 00:37:51.244
Yes, yes Okay.

00:37:51.626 --> 00:37:55.335
So the dispute escalated to Italy's highest court.

00:37:55.335 --> 00:37:59.936
Oh and, in 2008, the parties finally reached a settlement.

00:37:59.936 --> 00:38:08.954
So Erica Simon received 150,000 lira in recognition of the discovery and the resulting tourism revenue.

00:38:08.954 --> 00:38:19.519
This marked the end of the legal battle over the rights to one of the most significant archaeological finds of the 20th century.

00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:29.800
Okay, I think the other historical archaeological find of the 20th century would be the discovery of the T-Rex Sioux.

00:38:30.985 --> 00:38:35.213
Like pseudo-Sioux, like at the Field Museum yeah.

00:38:36.565 --> 00:38:38.027
There's a documentary on Sioux.

00:38:38.027 --> 00:38:42.711
It's pretty fantastic, and there was a major dispute over that too, of where the bones were.

00:38:42.731 --> 00:38:44.134
Yeah, yeah yeah, there's a documentary on.

00:38:44.134 --> 00:38:47.496
Sue, it's pretty fantastic, and there was a major dispute over that too of where the bones were Right.

00:38:47.556 --> 00:38:49.119
Did you know there's a song called A Boy Named Sue?

00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:49.458
Yes, johnny Cash.

00:38:49.458 --> 00:38:49.940
Yep, there you go.

00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:50.380
Tally one for K.

00:38:50.380 --> 00:38:54.692
I got something right in the music World.

00:38:54.992 --> 00:38:55.173
Okay.

00:38:56.126 --> 00:39:08.601
Anywho On the official Utsi Iceman website they have a webcam where you can watch a time lapse of the weather where his stone pyramid marker is.

00:39:10.166 --> 00:39:12.434
Why did they go with a stone pyramid marker?

00:39:13.746 --> 00:39:14.309
I don't know.

00:39:15.586 --> 00:39:17.012
Like you said, an obelisk right.

00:39:18.547 --> 00:39:27.157
Yeah, I'll show you a picture of it, but briefly I want to describe some of the resources I had.

00:39:27.157 --> 00:39:32.481
So the first one is the official Utsi website.

00:39:33.123 --> 00:39:33.284
Okay.

00:39:34.106 --> 00:40:01.338
So I ran across a documentary video that introduced me to the topic and it is from top documentary films dot com and the video name is called Uzi and the World of the Iceman, and I highly recommend the YouTube documentary that was first PBS'd, pbs'd.

00:40:01.358 --> 00:40:02.039
PBS'd.

00:40:05.652 --> 00:40:10.432
It was called Utsi the Iceman, a 5,000 year old true crime murder mystery.

00:40:10.432 --> 00:40:13.331
The video I highly recommend.

00:40:13.331 --> 00:40:19.793
They have actual footage of them taking Utsi out of the ice.

00:40:20.565 --> 00:40:22.132
Did they take him out in a giant block?

00:40:24.387 --> 00:40:25.230
No, I don't think so.

00:40:25.230 --> 00:40:30.393
Okay, but he was actually carried in a hearse.

00:40:31.135 --> 00:40:31.396
Was he.

00:40:32.108 --> 00:40:32.891
To Innsbruck.

00:40:32.891 --> 00:40:33.755
Yeah, he was.

00:40:33.755 --> 00:40:34.900
That's funny.

00:40:34.900 --> 00:40:40.554
Yeah, the video also shows all like the scientists doing their experiments and stuff.

00:40:40.554 --> 00:40:42.759
It's a pretty cool documentary.

00:40:43.045 --> 00:40:45.534
Oh, I bet it would be, pretty, pretty interesting to see what they did.

00:40:46.144 --> 00:40:57.083
Yeah, so I wanted to briefly show you some pictures, and these are going to be posted on our social media accounts.

00:40:57.083 --> 00:41:01.554
Okay, let me see how do I share my screen.

00:41:01.554 --> 00:41:05.288
Okay, so here is utsy's body yep, that's the picture I saw.

00:41:05.327 --> 00:41:05.748
I remember.

00:41:05.949 --> 00:41:21.400
Okay, I did yeah what I saw yeah yeah, and let's see here I'm gonna try to that's utsy's body out of the ice, so obviously that's the position that he officially collapsed in and died yeah.

00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:25.351
And his upper lip is like stitched up, and that's just how he died.

00:41:26.088 --> 00:41:28.099
Yeah, it's not because he was deformed or something.

00:41:28.782 --> 00:41:29.144
Exactly.

00:41:29.487 --> 00:41:30.250
Right, okay.

00:41:32.335 --> 00:41:33.909
And then we've got.

00:41:34.565 --> 00:41:35.992
Oh, so is that like where he's frozen?

00:41:36.425 --> 00:41:47.628
Yeah, so that is the museum and you can literally, you can literally look in and see his uh, frozen corpse that's crazy yeah is that all like made out of copper around it?

00:41:47.768 --> 00:41:53.867
due to his axe, it looks like copper at least no, I don't think it's copper no, it's probably not, but it looks like it.

00:41:53.867 --> 00:41:54.648
That's kind of funny.

00:41:54.668 --> 00:41:56.753
Yeah, that's kind of funny, yeah, that's kind of neat.

00:41:56.753 --> 00:42:01.179
And then this is the stone pyramid marker.

00:42:02.206 --> 00:42:02.809
The obelisk.

00:42:05.710 --> 00:42:06.898
Isn't that view so pretty?

00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:08.123
That's beautiful.

00:42:08.123 --> 00:42:10.148
No wonder he was going up there.

00:42:10.730 --> 00:42:14.349
Yeah, so that is Utsi.

00:42:14.789 --> 00:42:15.130
Utsi.

00:42:15.940 --> 00:42:19.809
Yeah, the Iceman who is 5,200 years old.

00:42:19.971 --> 00:42:20.632
That's crazy.

00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:22.284
Isn't that so cool.

00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:23.141
Yeah, that's.

00:42:23.141 --> 00:42:32.554
I mean to find something that old and that preserved where they could find out where he was from, he had a backache or whatever.

00:42:32.614 --> 00:42:45.831
I mean jesus christ brown eyes, all that stuff, that's that's amazing to be able to like kind of look back in the past like that, because I would imagine you know they always say they always put timelines on how long humans have been around and so on, whatever.

00:42:45.831 --> 00:42:54.043
So that's gotta like fuck up a little bit of that stuff, knowing like what they could do and everything right I totally didn't even show you something.

00:42:54.244 --> 00:43:00.606
Well, oh my gosh why would you omit that, that piece of evidence I mean and it's, and it is like such good evidence.

00:43:00.606 --> 00:43:06.922
Okay, so they had an artist come in oh, did they do a rendering of what do you think they did a they did a rendering, but get this.

00:43:06.943 --> 00:43:08.826
They did a rendering, but get this.

00:43:08.826 --> 00:43:18.710
They did a rendering of the original body, okay, and they created a 3D model.

00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:22.125
So they actually have like a mannequin, if you will.

00:43:22.125 --> 00:43:23.467
Yes.

00:43:23.507 --> 00:43:24.349
That's kind of cool.

00:43:24.349 --> 00:43:25.851
Okay, you ready.

00:43:25.952 --> 00:43:27.434
I think so Are you.

00:43:27.514 --> 00:43:29.284
Okay, okay, here we go.

00:43:29.284 --> 00:43:30.623
This is what he looks like.

00:43:31.246 --> 00:43:33.344
Wow, that is weird.

00:43:33.344 --> 00:43:33.271
He's here we go.

00:43:33.271 --> 00:43:33.721
This is what he looks like.

00:43:33.721 --> 00:43:34.429
Wow, that is weird.

00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:35.869
He's a little man.

00:43:36.414 --> 00:43:42.409
No doubt he had a Napoleon complex before Napoleon had a complex, even though apparently he really didn't.

00:43:42.409 --> 00:43:44.353
That is wild.

00:43:44.353 --> 00:43:48.570
He's an ugly man, wow.

00:43:49.461 --> 00:43:51.630
He was approximately 45 years old.

00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:52.543
I was going to ask.

00:43:52.543 --> 00:44:06.114
So I I mean, I'm almost 45 and I don't look like that, but I have gray in the beard like he does he was a little weathered um 45.

00:44:06.114 --> 00:44:18.608
That's got to be pretty decent age for that time right I would imagine I mean, I would think so, but I I guess I don't know what life expectancy was back at 3200 bc, yeah.

00:44:19.170 --> 00:44:22.675
So yeah no, that's uh, that's wild.

00:44:23.376 --> 00:44:32.172
That's utsy, named after the, the the um alpine ridge okay, oh, that's the name of the ridge that they found him on.

00:44:32.193 --> 00:44:35.405
Yeah, it's like, or something like that gotcha.

00:44:35.485 --> 00:44:36.548
That makes more sense then.

00:44:36.548 --> 00:44:46.563
So, uh, it's kind of funny how you asked me where I'd like to go and I said italy, and then it happened to be a story in italy where is a place you would like to go?

00:44:46.563 --> 00:44:51.474
Oh um scotland I would love to go to Scotland.

00:44:51.474 --> 00:44:53.237
My parents went there and my mom loved it.

00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:57.630
Yeah, that's probably the the highest on my list.

00:44:57.630 --> 00:44:59.206
I would definitely go back to Italy.

00:44:59.586 --> 00:44:59.807
Sure.

00:45:01.340 --> 00:45:01.481
Um.

00:45:01.481 --> 00:45:04.371
I would love to see Germany.

00:45:05.862 --> 00:45:07.628
I went to Germany, it was great.

00:45:07.628 --> 00:45:16.601
I went to Oktoberfest with my brother and our our friend Patrick was great.

00:45:16.601 --> 00:45:18.286
I went to octoberfest with my brother and our our friend patrick.

00:45:18.286 --> 00:45:19.007
Um, and then, since you what?

00:45:19.007 --> 00:45:20.190
You brought up austria for something before.

00:45:20.210 --> 00:45:20.572
Right I went to.

00:45:20.592 --> 00:45:27.612
Yeah, it was right, on the austria italy border I went to uh, salzburg, austria, on our trip out there.

00:45:27.612 --> 00:45:30.679
So, yeah, it's a beautiful area.

00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:36.949
I would love to go see more of that too, but that's why I want to go to italy see some of their, because they have mountain ranges obviously.

00:45:36.949 --> 00:45:38.360
Um, I like mountains.

00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:45.059
Personally, I'm more of a mountain guy than a beach guy, so yeah yeah, it's a beautiful area.

00:45:45.219 --> 00:45:46.702
I would love to go visit someday.

00:45:46.702 --> 00:45:52.005
It's not in the cards at the moment, but you know, hopefully one of these days we'll get there.

00:45:52.606 --> 00:45:57.411
So yeah, yeah, so let us know how you like the episode.

00:45:57.411 --> 00:46:00.552
Give us a voicemail or a text.

00:46:00.893 --> 00:46:04.777
Or an email or whatever form you can think of.

00:46:04.777 --> 00:46:11.800
Also, we did record this over Zoom, so we hope the quality is pretty well.

00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:16.489
There's a good chance maybe something cut out here or there, but we'll try and fix that on editing as best as possible.

00:46:16.489 --> 00:46:25.653
But we hope you enjoyed some ootsie talk and uh guess what?

00:46:25.653 --> 00:46:29.340
What I didn't sing once oh, my god, you didn't recording.

00:46:29.740 --> 00:46:45.324
I think we're gonna put a gold star next to this title if you, we got to get out of here fast, otherwise I'm gonna start right now well, I suppose all right, buffoons, that's it for today's episode buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you.

00:46:45.324 --> 00:46:53.391
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00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:55.286
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00:46:55.286 --> 00:47:00.228
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00:47:00.228 --> 00:47:04.487
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00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:10.228
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00:47:10.521 --> 00:47:13.724
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00:47:14.206 --> 00:47:16.271
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