Feb. 13, 2025
The Origin of Weird: Knocker Uppers/Pure Finders
Ever wondered how people managed to wake up on time before the invention of reliable alarm clocks? Join us as we promise a journey through the quirky world of Victorian-era professions, where the "knocker uppers" reigned supreme. These human alarm clocks roamed the streets, tapping on windows with bamboo sticks or knocking on doors to rouse factory workers before dawn. Dive into the humorous and often chaotic world of these early risers who ensured the city never slept through the morning shift. We'll unravel how this peculiar job became a necessity in an era when time truly was money, and explore the inventive ways they navigated the challenges of their unconventional work.
But that's just the beginning! You'll also explore the unusual profession of "pure finders," dedicated to gathering dog feces for the leather industry—a surprising yet vital trade during the Victorian era. With insights from journalist Henry Mayhew's investigations, discover how these workers managed to turn waste into a commodity, forming contracts with dog kennels and shaping a unique economy. As we connect the dots between these past professions and modern waste collection services, you'll gain a newfound appreciation for the resilience and resourcefulness of those who thrived in unusual jobs. Prepare for a captivating blend of history, humor, and the oddities of the past that still resonate today.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-did-people-use-before-alarm-clocks
https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/generalnews/the-knocker-upper/
https://www.nofreelunch.co.uk/blog/what-was-a-victorian-pure-finder/
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Chapters
00:16 - The Origin of Victorian Knocker Uppers
13:44 - The Peculiar Profession of Pure Finders
Transcript
WEBVTT
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oh, hey, there, oh hey there, I'm kate and I'm brad.
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And this is the Origin of Weird.
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By the History Buffoons.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, how are you today, kate?
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I'm good.
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I'm a little sluggish, but I'm good.
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That seems to be a theme as of late on our podcast.
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That's fair.
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We tend to do it on weekends after like a full work week it's, we fit it in when we can, we sure do, and that's what it works, and that's okay.
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Um, it's currently snowing out right now oh my god, so much snow a lot of snow actually.
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Yeah, I mean it's, it's well, it's my area of wisconsin's first big, big snow right, yeah, so it's come down quite a bit since 11, 10, 10, even before, I think.
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So anyways, yeah, it's snowing.
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And we're going to make this quick because all my cats are out.
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So we don't want to.
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This will be fun.
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Good thing this is just an origin yeah, because our origins are usually on the quicker side.
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So the main one I'm concerned about is the one that's currently.
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The orange one.
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Yeah, we're eyeing up a cord right there hey.
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Oi, oi, no, oliver, oliver, okay, we're going to make this quick, okay, yeah, what are we going to talk about today?
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You tell me, okay.
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That's right because I have the information.
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Yes, and I respond to it, oliver.
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He pulled on my ears.
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Okay, he pulled on my ears.
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We are going to talk about two different Victorian era professions.
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Okay.
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Yes, so the first one.
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Yes, they're called knocker uppers.
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Knocker uppers, I mean like people that just go around and get people pregnant.
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No.
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Oh, okay.
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So we're going to go to England and this is during their industrial revolution, which was between like 1760 to like 1840.
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And then plus some.
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Sure, this profession goes on beyond the industrial revolution.
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Okay, but it was started because of the yes of the revolution.
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So it was a time when factories were just popping up everywhere, sure, and farmers were feeling um less needed okay, if you will right because all these factories are now making farm equipment that can replace them sure?
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no, it makes sense so farmers actually moved into the cities and started working in factories.
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Okay, yeah, but if you recall farmers, the traditional cliche they're broken up by a rooster, yeah, the morning, sun shining through, and they don't have alarms to actually tell them when to go to work, because it's flexible.
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This is where people went around and knocked on people's doors, isn't it?
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It is, I've seen this.
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That's cool.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So farmers can get up whenever they want.
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So when they're moving into the city, they realize, oh crap, I need to be on time.
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All of a sudden, right yeah.
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So people are needing a stable income, which is a scarcity right now, sure, and people cannot afford to miss a single day's work.
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Right, right, yeah so they had to arrive at their factory jobs on time every day, without fail, and if they were late you lose that day's earnings or even potentially lose your job.
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Yeah, for sure, yeah.
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And there were plenty of people to replace you yeah, they, everyone needed work, so yeah, and the alarm clock was in fact invented in the late 1700s, so it was around oh really but it wasn't reliable and it was way too expensive for some of these like yeah low to low middle class individuals, right, no, that makes sense.
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So no alarm clocks, no rooster.
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What are these factory workers going to do?
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They're going to rely on somebody.
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They hire knocker uppers.
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That's so funny.
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It's called knocker uppers, so people would walk around these cities and ring their doorbells and knock on their doors to wake them up for their shifts.
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Right, and sometimes as early as like 3 am.
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Like these knocker uppers would stay up all night and that was their third shift work, you know yeah, basically yeah, um, that's funny, yeah, so in fact it was cheaper to hire a person to wake them up than it was to buy an alarm clock isn't that wild to think about.
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Yeah, that is pretty crazy because knowing that, like this person, had to be on time to your place it's like what if?
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What if multiple people needed to be up at 3am?
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They just have to hire individual people for themselves.
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Is that what they did?
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So it depends on the area.
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There's a, there's a knocker upper per like square footage, several mile radius, and they would go to the houses that need it first, and a lot of times they would have these signs in the window say please wake me up at such and such time, or it was like a verbal contract kind of thing.
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Sure, wow.
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Yeah.
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So there were even some factories who would hire knocker uppers for their own employees.
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Which makes sense, because they want their people into work.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So the unique profession grew throughout the cities own employees, which makes sense because they they want their people into work.
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Yeah, exactly so.
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So the unique profession grew throughout the cities and, of course, there had to be some curmudgeons.
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Um, with all the noise coming from the streets wrapping on doors, ringing doorbells, there are plenty of people who did not want to be woken up at that time but were because of that exactly so even other family members in the household are getting woken up.
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Yeah, like dad needs to get up at four.
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Yes.
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But mom and the kids don't.
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They don't need to get up till six or whatever.
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It might be.
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Exactly Sure, sure.
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So the knocker upper solution was to carry really long bamboo sticks because of their light weight.
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Yeah.
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And they would put, like a poker or a bell or something metal on the end and they would tap on windows.
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So they knew which window yes, yes, and that's how they would wake up their pain clients.
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They also don't want to wake up these neighbors who are not paying for the service, which are relying them, relying on them to be loud right so this was another way to be like okay, we're, we're not waking you up, we're going to be really quiet.
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We got the person that is paying for us.
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That's so weird, smarty pants.
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So they were good and they were bad knocker uppers.
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Okay.
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The good ones would wrap on your windows until they alerted the person.
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So there would be like a wave out the window.
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The blinds were coming up, the candles were lit inside the room.
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So they basically knew their job was done there Exactly and move on Exactly.
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The bad ones would rap on the window three or four times and just move along Like time is money type of thing.
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Yeah, so I get it, but it's like that sucks, because if you don't know that your person's actually awake, then oh dear yeah you're being paid for a service.
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Right.
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And if you didn't get them up, I don't think they're going to pay you to come back.
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I wouldn't pay them Exactly.
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Screw that.
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Yeah, wow.
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So police would also supplement their income by being knocker uppers.
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Well, I guess, if they're out and about, right.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So if they're on their beat, they're going to be there anyway, why not?
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that I mean makes sense yeah.
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So this kind of leads me to a story that could unravel for hours if we let it.
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So I am going to be brief, because it is not quite about the knocker uppers, but sure it has a knocker up, knocker up in the story, gotcha.
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So in august of 1888, a man by the name of Charles Cross was a driver at the time, okay, and he was on his way to work at about 3.40 in the morning.
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So he noticed a woman lying on the ground in an area of London called Buck's Row and she had been stabbed.
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Oh geez, yes.
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So while he was confirming what he saw, another gentleman came up to him Okay.
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His name was Robert Paul.
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And together the men are like there's a woman dead here on the streets of London, what do we do?
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Well, together they found a policeman who was a knocker-upper at the time.
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Okay, yes.
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So they go to him and they're like're like hey, there's a woman back here on buck's row, she's dead.
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And he's like I, I'll be there when I'm done with my knocker uppers.
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So he's just like, yeah, well exactly, he just kept doing his knocker upper job.
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That's wild, yeah okay so when that policeman finally did get to the scene, an investigation was already going.
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Sure, like he kind of missed the boat, I'd say so, but get this Okay.
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Get this.
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The woman was Mary Nichols.
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She was potentially not entirely confirmed, but most likely the very first victim of Jack the Ripper.
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I was going to say this has to deal with Jack the Ripper.
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Yes, that's wild.
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Yes, so now, if the policeman had stopped doing his knocker over job, could he have maybe gone to the scene and maybe caught the person.
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Who knows?
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We don't know.
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I mean we don't know they never, they never caught Jack the Ripper, so they didn't.
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But for those who do want to continue down this rabbit hole because, like I said, the thread could unravel for hours the first man who found her, charles Cross.
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His testimony was taken as fact for years, but until 2012, cross became a suspect due to several factors.
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Sure, he lived and worked in the area.
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Robert Paul, the second person to arrive at the crime scene, gave a slightly different account of Cross's position when he arrived.
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Oh so the discrepancy fuels the theory that Cross had actually perhaps done the murder himself.
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Right.
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And the name Cross is a pseudonym.
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Oh, it's fake.
00:10:06.035 --> 00:10:07.899
Okay, that's not even his real last name, gotcha.
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His real last name was lechmer.
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it's spelled l-e-c-h-m-e-r-e okay so the case is entirely circumstantial but, like I said, unravel for hours so if you wanted to continue that story, by all means, by all means, but there is a knocker upper on that story.
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That's funny, okay.
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So now many women also use this profession as a way to financially stabilize themselves, and they would use this kind of as a side hustle while also still working in factories and children would also be knocker uppers and then go to continue being in school all day okay so one such woman we have, mary smith mary smith okay she would walk her streets with a pea shooter.
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Oh really, she had a tube that she would blow into like a straw yeah and a hardened pea to hit the window, hit the window, really, and that's how she woke up her clients and it must have worked because people know who she is well exactly and there's a photographer that took pictures of her and he shot to stardom based on this picture.
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Did he really?
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Yeah, which I'll have in our social media.
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That's funny.
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So her nearest competition was like three miles away.
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It was an old man using a fishing rod but so she has like about three miles of her own space.
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Sure, um, but she would charge her clients about six pence a week, which is about six pennies, okay, um.
00:11:38.745 --> 00:11:48.426
So at one point these knocker-upper for about 60 years 60 years A long time Holy shit, a long time, wow.
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And her daughter, molly Moore, was one of the last knocker-uppers in England.
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Okay.
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She was in that profession for about 20 years and used her mother's pea shooter once her mother retired.
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So eventually her job fell away as more and more people were buying and relying on alarm clocks.
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They got cheaper yeah exactly so.
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By the 1940s 1950s this profession has pretty much entirely died out, although it actually did continue in some um areas in england until the 1970s.
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That's wild to think about.
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The last knocker-upper retired from the job in 1973 in Bolton, which is near Manchester.
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It's really weird to think that six years before I was born, people were still doing that.
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Isn't that crazy.
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That is crazy, because I mean 1973?
00:12:40.645 --> 00:12:40.645
.
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Yeah, you wouldn't think they would need that type of profession at that point.
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All right, that's weird.
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So, in reference to your pregnancy, knocked up the term, kind of adapted throughout history, it wasn't something that it did not come from.
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Knocker uppers Right come from.
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Knocker uppers right, um, what it could have come from, but not, um, not clear is the term knocking house, which was another name for a brothel.
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Oh, okay, so, but that the origins remain completely unclear oh really but that is a potential.
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The brothels were called knocking houses.
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At one point knocked up gotcha okay, so our next profession oh dear yes, victorian londoners, they love their dogs just as much as we love our dogs today.
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But they weren't great about cleaning up after themselves so they would leave the shit in the streets they would leave the shit in the sheets, sheets, sheets streets that's weird Streets.
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Streets.
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There we go.
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Let's move on.
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So while some areas were kept pretty tidy by hired street orderlies, a much larger group of people called peer finders P-U-R-E.
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Peer finders roamed the streets with covered buckets collecting dog poop.
00:14:04.136 --> 00:14:05.403
That sounds like a terrible job.
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Purefinders were paid by tanneries who used dog feces along with lime in the process to purify and soften leather.
00:14:16.808 --> 00:14:18.235
Really, yes, Interesting.
00:14:18.235 --> 00:14:29.067
So the name purefinder comes from the French word pierre, which is P-U-E-R, which means animal dung used in tanning.
00:14:29.067 --> 00:14:29.889
Oh, wow.
00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:38.089
So for some reason Victorians also refer to dog waste as pure P-U-R-E, hence the name for those who collected it.
00:14:38.089 --> 00:14:44.974
So our understanding of Pure Finders comes from an investigative journalist named Henry Mayhew.
00:14:44.974 --> 00:14:52.369
Okay, he was considered one of the first and he meticulously documented these peer finders of London.
00:14:52.575 --> 00:14:55.004
That's a weird thing to do, but okay yeah.
00:14:55.554 --> 00:15:14.585
So he shed some light on the struggles of those without regular employment and who resorted to peer finding to survive like supplement their income, if you will yes, so mayhew estimated that in the mid-1800s there were approximately 200 to 300 peer finders in london alone.
00:15:14.585 --> 00:15:20.562
Wow, mostly women, and they had difficulty earning and living through more conventional means right.
00:15:20.581 --> 00:15:23.960
So that makes sense why they would maybe go that route, yes, kind of thing.
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:33.712
So okay, makes sense so pure finders earned between eight and ten pence per bucket okay which is actually pretty respectable for that time.
00:15:33.712 --> 00:15:34.394
Yeah, no kidding.
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So the al, the alkaline content, yeah, in the dog poop was was what drew them to the dog excrement.
00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:52.469
So it was a dry limey sort is what this guy quoted as saying in his investigative journalism Okay.
00:15:52.469 --> 00:15:57.385
So it was the most valuable because of its superior purifying properties.
00:15:57.947 --> 00:15:58.368
Oh Okay.
00:15:59.275 --> 00:15:59.677
Interesting.
00:15:59.677 --> 00:16:08.830
So it might seem like a lowly profession, but average income was about 13 pounds a year, which was pretty good for that time.
00:16:08.830 --> 00:16:09.409
Oh, really.
00:16:09.471 --> 00:16:27.393
Yeah, it was compared to other working class Londoners, that's kind of weird to think about that Someone picking up shit could be make a living yeah, we'll call it yeah wow, okay so the job of a pure finder was simple walk the streets of london, collect dog droppings.
00:16:27.955 --> 00:16:33.413
This required a bucket with a hinged lid to conceal their contents and their odor sure keep flies away.
00:16:33.413 --> 00:16:40.676
Yep, but the key difference between modern dog owners and victorian pure finders is the use of disposable bags.
00:16:40.855 --> 00:16:47.529
Right, right so according to mayhew the journalist, many pure finders use their bare hands.
00:16:47.529 --> 00:17:05.510
Oh yeah, mayhew wrote in london labor and london poor quote the pure finder is often found in the open streets as dogs wander, always carrying a handle basket, generally with a cover to hide the contents, with a black leather glove.
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Many of them dispense with the glove, as they say it's much easier to wash their hands than to keep the glove fit for use.
00:17:14.465 --> 00:17:17.295
I mean I suppose, but still gross.
00:17:18.224 --> 00:17:27.237
So because tanners preferred a specific type of dog waste, pure finders developed techniques to achieve that desired consistency.
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They would mix droppings with loose mortar scraped from brickwork.
00:17:32.436 --> 00:17:32.917
Oh really.
00:17:33.449 --> 00:17:34.597
To make it like super dry.
00:17:35.041 --> 00:17:35.384
Interesting.
00:17:35.726 --> 00:17:43.203
So the number of pure finders wasn't limited to, like, the people's aversion to the work, but rather by the market Sure.
00:17:43.223 --> 00:17:43.325
Sure.
00:17:43.665 --> 00:17:53.393
Yeah, so the most successful pure finders had secured contracts with dog kennels, ensuring a steady supply.
00:17:53.605 --> 00:17:54.670
Sure, that makes sense.
00:17:55.086 --> 00:18:10.638
And then, of course, others were left to scour the streets, of course, but the relatively high earning potential of the trade even led to the development of a dog waste supply chain that's wild so some pure finders became middlemen middlemen.
00:18:10.659 --> 00:18:11.160
What is that?
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.974
and they would pay the poorest individuals a small portion of what the tanners would pay.
00:18:16.214 --> 00:18:22.248
Okay, to actually do the collecting so they wouldn't have to do it, but they get a major part of the profit.
00:18:22.248 --> 00:18:23.028
Exactly Okay.
00:18:23.189 --> 00:18:24.990
Exactly, wow, yes.
00:18:26.030 --> 00:18:26.530
That's weird.
00:18:27.132 --> 00:18:39.019
So the waste was literally rubbed into animal hides during the tanning process to purify them, before being crafted into leather gloves, book bindings, shoes.
00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:46.086
So, although it seems quite gross, it does shoes.
00:18:46.086 --> 00:18:47.027
So although it seems quite gross, it does.
00:18:47.027 --> 00:18:55.849
It's worth noting that the tanning industry in morocco still uses pigeon droppings really for the same purpose, that's just, and it's called batting or bathing, b-a-t-i-n-g.
00:18:55.849 --> 00:18:56.431
Okay.
00:18:56.872 --> 00:19:12.530
So something to consider next time you go shopping for any leather goods I don't really buy a lot of leather, so I don't think I'm going to have to worry about how much shit was put on my leather gloves or whatever I would happen to buy for that matter, but that's weird.
00:19:13.086 --> 00:19:17.471
But that's just two of many weird professions in the Victorian area of London.
00:19:17.692 --> 00:19:17.913
Right.
00:19:18.005 --> 00:19:19.330
Pure finders and knocker uppers.
00:19:20.184 --> 00:19:21.592
It's funny because I just saw something on the knocker uppers.
00:19:21.592 --> 00:19:21.792
It's not.
00:19:21.792 --> 00:19:23.701
It's funny cause I just saw something on the knocker uppers.
00:19:23.923 --> 00:19:24.204
Did you?
00:19:24.665 --> 00:19:25.651
Not that long ago.
00:19:25.651 --> 00:19:29.692
So it's funny that you bring it up, Cause, yeah, I'm like what kind of job would?
00:19:29.692 --> 00:19:30.454
That's just weird.
00:19:30.454 --> 00:19:32.229
It's a human alarm clock.
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