The Origin of Weird: Rosemary Kennedy/Lobotomy

Transcript

WEBVTT

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oh, hey there oh, hey there welcome to the origin of weird.

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That's weird.

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I love this segment.

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I do too.

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It's so great.

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I know um.

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How did you like the operation mincemeat?

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I thought that was really cool.

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Actually, I mean to to be that clever and like, set up that whole ruse just to try and pull those, uh, those soldiers off sicily.

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I mean that's and and for it to actually have worked is just mind-boggling.

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That was weird, because they had to go through a lot just to make a dead person seem like he was important.

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So that was wild A vagrant, yeah.

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Yeah, no, that was pretty funny and that movie was good too.

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That you suggested that was that Netflix movie.

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Yes, yes, I liked it, so this is our companion to the history of buffoons.

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Yes, so it's called the origin of weird.

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This is our second episode, yep, so we're still kind of getting a flavor for it.

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Yeah, trying to see like how long we want our episodes to be.

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I think we kind of said around 20 minutes, so give or take, yeah.

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Just again, again being a companion, not full-blown episodes like history buffoons where we dive a little deeper in, but we just again are looking for all things weird and trying to find that origin of it so yeah.

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So today we're going to talk about rosemary kennedy I've heard of her.

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Do you know who she is?

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She's related to the Kennedys.

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You know, I didn't think that would give that away, I mean, I'm just that smart, see.

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now, that is weird.

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So Rosemary Kennedy was the third child born to Joe Kennedy Sr and Rose Fitzgerald Yep, so we're going to start off right away on a jolly note, okay, okay, during her birth, yeah, the doctor was not immediately available oh dear as there was an outbreak of the spanish influenza epidemic and he had to be elsewhere fair enough so the nurse working with mama rose told her to keep her legs together.

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What Forcing the baby's head to stay in the birth canal for two hours?

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Oh my God.

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Why.

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Apparently they didn't know what happens if they do that.

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Oh, dear, okay.

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So lots of loss of oxygen.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, wow, that's so devastating.

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That really is.

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Yeah, so as rosemary grew, she wasn't reaching the basic developmental steps of someone her age.

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At two she had a hard time sitting up, oh, geez, crawling.

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Many of the extended family knew nothing of rosemary's condition.

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So so, like the immediate family yes, the brothers and sisters, right, but like aunts and uncles, no idea, wow, um, um, rose would not confide in any of her friends and she would basically just say that Rosemary was developing normally, jesus, yeah, okay.

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Rosemary would go on to a special schools and they gave her like basically one-on-one education.

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Okay.

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And they were completely separate from other children.

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So oh, makes sense, yeah, okay.

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So she went to the Sacred Heart Convent in Rhode Island.

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Okay.

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Two nuns and a special education teacher taught her literally every day, and they were just working with her.

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Yes, okay, two nuns and a special education teacher taught her literally every day.

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And they were just working with her.

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Yes, okay.

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At 16,.

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She had the reading level of a nine-year-old.

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Oh wow, that's crazy.

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And with all this hard work that the nuns and the teachers did, the Kennedys gave them a new tennis court.

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Well, that's nice of them.

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Now you can play tennis while you teach my kid.

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Yeah, that's weird, what?

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Why would you give him a here's a here's a tennis court, did they?

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Give him some rackets too, I mean one would hope, god, you would hope here's a ball, don't lose it, it's the only one.

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Uh-huh, wow, okay, mm-hmm, that's weird.

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I mean, have you read, listened to, watched anything on the Kennedy family?

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I mean, I know a little, not very extensive.

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The whole family is weird.

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They are, I mean, they're all incredibly smart, yeah, and they're all in politics or some kind of Right High position of authority For sure, and they're all cunning, like it's so bizarre.

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I know I mean.

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And it all came from Joe the father.

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Yeah.

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He was, yeah, yeah, he was the ringleader.

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Okay, fair enough.

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I've read a couple books have you.

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Mostly on the women Sure Jackie, ethel and Eunice Okay.

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Ethel and.

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Eunice.

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Okay, um, I think there's literally a book called that.

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It's like there are three names.

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That's the book I've read, gotcha.

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Anyway anyway.

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At 22 years old, rosemary became increasingly irritable and difficult.

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And those were the words from Eunice.

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Is there?

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Did they say a reason as to why they thought she was?

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Or it was just kind of?

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she would.

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She couldn't regulate her emotions.

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She would go into violent rages.

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She would hit and injure others.

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Oh dear, she would be expelled from summer camps.

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Okay.

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And she would sneak out of the convent at night.

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Oh dear, the family was frustrated.

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Sure and her father, Joe, was worried that Rosemary's behavior could negatively impact his political career.

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Well, of course, as well as his children's.

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You've got to look out for him.

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Yeah.

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And his other kids that are not challenged because, well, close your legs for a couple of hours, yeah.

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So Joe was first chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, okay, chairman of the Maritime Commission and US Ambassador to the United Kingdom from 1938 to 1940.

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Wow, so that was kind of his political career, sure, and we all know who JFK is and RFK Yep yep yep, ted Kennedy.

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Yeah, when Rosemary was 23 years old, doctors told her father that a lobotomy would help her with her mood swings.

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I was just going to say she's the one that got the lobotomy right.

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And they could potentially help her stop her occasional violent outbursts.

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If they only knew so this is on the lobotomy of Rosemary Kennedy.

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Yeah, okay, that makes sense as you were talking about it.

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That was going through my head.

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I'm like I'm pretty sure she's the one, so okay, talking about it, that was going through my head.

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I'm like I'm pretty sure she's the one.

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So okay.

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So joe decided that rosemary should have the lobotomy oh god.

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However, he did not inform his wife.

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Oh, until after the procedure was completed, that seems like a dick move, joe yeah, he's not a.

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He's not a good guy, clearly he's not I mean, you shouldn't have even done the lobotomy, let alone not tell your wife that you're like.

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Hey, just so you know Our daughter won't have a personality anymore.

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Oh, my word, wow, okay.

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Isn't that horrendous, that's terrible.

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What a dick.

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Yeah, you're a dick, joe, he's such an asshole.

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Now I want to read more Kennedy books, books, just to be like joe, you're an asshole.

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Yeah, that is.

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I mean to even like think of doing that to somebody, just just vile we'll get to the numbers oh, dear okay so the lobotomy severs connections in the frontal lobe of the brain yeah

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um, and this controls behavior personality.

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So the goal of the lobotomy was to reduce abnormal stimuli.

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Sure, that might cause impulsive or violent behavior.

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Okay, and the doctors believed that lobotomies would make the patient's calm or more docile.

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Jesus Christ, yeah.

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So James W Watts carried out the first procedure.

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Okay With Walter Freeman.

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Watts carried out the first procedure.

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Okay with walter freeman.

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Nope, not the first procedure.

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They carried out this procedure with rosemary.

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So james watts and walter freeman and they were both from george washington university school of medicine and health sciences.

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Okay.

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So both Watts and Freeman actually talked to a biographer, an author.

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His name is Ronald Kessler and the biography was of Joe and it's called Sins of the Father.

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Okay, Okay, and it's from 1996.

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Oh, wow, so these doctors are telling the author this Okay, After Rosemary was mildly sedated quote.

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We went through the author this Okay, After Rosemary was mildly sedated quote.

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We went through the top of the head.

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Oh Jesus, Dr Watts recalled.

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I think she was awake.

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I think she had a mild tranquilizer.

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Oh dear, I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull.

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Okay.

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It was near the front, okay, okay.

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Okay, okay, oh Jesus.

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Christ.

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We put an instrument inside, he said.

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As Dr Watts cut, dr Freeman asked Rosemary, for example, to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing God Bless America or count backwards.

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That's weird.

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We tried to estimate thus how far to further cut based on how Rosemary responded.

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What the fuck.

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When she became incoherent, they ceased cutting.

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end quote oh my god, fucking, just what the shit is that?

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yeah, that's I think that's what you call it experiment yeah, that is.

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That is not cool man.

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Wow, yeah, yeah, we don't stop until she becomes incoherent.

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That is fucked up watts continued to tell the author um kessler that in his opinion, yeah, rosemary did not have mental retardation but rather a form of depression oh good a review of all the papers written by the.

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Oh good, Good.

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Lord, okay, but yet let's do that lobotomy.

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Wow, that's a misdiagnosis like I've never heard before Jesus Christ.

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Rosemary's mental capacity diminished to that of a two-year-old.

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Wow, she could not walk, speak intelligibly and was incontinent.

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Oh, jesus Christ, after the lobotomy, rosemary was immediately institutionalized.

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Sure, rosemary was immediately institutionalized.

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Sure, she initially lived for several years at Craig House, which is about 90 minutes north of New York City.

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Yeah, and then, in 1949, she was relocated to Jefferson, wisconsin.

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I was going to say she lived in Wisconsin yeah.

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And she lived here for the rest of her life on the grounds of St Coletta School for Exceptional Children.

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Wow, so Jefferson is just northwest of Whitewater, where we occasionally have drinks, yeah.

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Correct.

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Yep, fun fact y'all, it's near Madison.

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In case you didn't know.

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Where we have drinks.

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Yep, her mother Rose.

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Yes, case, casey didn't know where we have drinks?

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yep her mother rose.

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Yes, did not visit her for 20 years.

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Holy shit her father, joe did not visit her at all, I was gonna say I would be because he's an asshole, because he's a dick.

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I was gonna say, if you said he visited, her.

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I was going to be like there's no fucking way.

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No, is that not terrible?

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I couldn't imagine.

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I mean especially with what he did to her.

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I mean you could at least show her the courtesy of visiting, Because I couldn't imagine not visiting my kids.

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I miss them when I don't see them, like For a few hours, you know, let alone 20 years or never.

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So author Kate Clifford Larson, who wrote the book Rosemary, the Hidden Kennedy Daughter, stated that Rosemary's lobotomy was hidden from the family for those 20 years that's crazy.

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None of her siblings knew where she was.

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Oh really, they didn't even just tell them at all.

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Nope, that's messed up.

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Knew where she was, oh really they didn't even just they didn't tell them at all.

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Nope, that's messed up while her older brother, john, was campaigning for re-election to the us senate in 1958.

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The kennedy family explained away her absence by claiming she was reclusive oh good lord, and people just bought that the family did not publicly explain her absence until 1961, after john had been elected president really because, again, like joe said, didn't want to screw up the political career for him or his kids that were well jfk and rfk and all that.

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Wow, that is such a dick thing after 1961, after joe had a stroke that left an unable to speak or walk.

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Ironic yeah right, no kidding rosemary siblings were finally made aware of her location.

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Okay, her lobotomy did not become public knowledge until 1987.

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Holy shit, that's crazy.

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And that was only because a historian found it out.

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Oh really, doris Kearns Goodwin revealed it in her book the Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys.

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Okay, Well, I mean good for her to release that, because everyone else is like where is this person?

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Isn't that crazy what happened to her.

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So following Joe's death in 1969, the kennedys gradually involved rosemary in family life again.

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Okay good, she was occasionally taken to visit relatives in florida and washington dc, as well as her childhood home on cape cod okay um, by that time, rosemary had learned to walk again, but she did so with a limp sure she never regained the ability to speak clearly, and her arm was paralyzed.

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Okay, which arm, I don't know.

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Okay, it was her right, was it?

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I don't know, you're just grasping at straws.

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Her condition is sometimes credited as the inspiration for Eunice Kennedy Shriver to later found the special Olympics.

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Oh really, Um I didn't know that.

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That's cool.

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Yeah, so Shriver had actually told the New York times in 1995 that Kennedy was just one of the disabled people that she would have over to her house to swim and that the games should not focus on any single individual.

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But they think that that's kind of where it came from.

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Okay, fair enough.

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Yeah, so Rosemary died from natural causes on January 7, 2005 at 86 years old.

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Oh wow, she made it to 05.

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Mm-hmm, and she was at the Fort Atkinson Memorial Hospital in Fort Atkinson, wisconsin.

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Yep.

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Okay With hospital in fort atkinson, wisconsin.

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Yeah, okay with her siblings um, sisters gene, unis and patricia, and brother ted by her side.

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Okay, she was buried beside her parents at hollyhood cemetery in brookline, massachusetts.

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I hope she spit on joe's grave when she was buried in the united states yeah, approximately 40 000 people were lobotomized.

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Holy crap, that's a lot of people.

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Yeah, in England, about 17,000 were lobotomized Still a lot.

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In the three Nordic countries of Denmark, norway and Sweden, a combined figure of approximately 9,300 lobotomies were performed.

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Jesus, 9,300 lobotomies were performed, jesus.

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Scandinavian hospitals lobotomized 2.5 times as many people per capita as hospitals in the US.

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That's crazy Wow.

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Sweden lobotomized at least 4,500 people between 1944 and 1966, mainly women, why?

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And young children?

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What the Come on?

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In Norway, there were 2005 known lobotomies.

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Okay, in Japan, the majority of lobotomies were performed on children with behavioral problems, of course.

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The Soviet Union banned the practice in 1950 on moral grounds.

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Wow, they had something going there.

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Yep, germany actually only performed it a couple of times really okay by the late 1970s the practice of lobotomy had generally ceased, although was continued as late as 19 as the 1980s in france.

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Oh really, okay, I was gonna ask because this is not a procedure.

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That's still done today then right, no, okay good.

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So the Le Bonigny was first introduced in 1935 under the direction of the Portuguese neurologist Antonio Igues Moniz.

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Okay, and he won the 1949 Nobel Prize For it.

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Yep, good Lord.

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49 Nobel Prize For it Yep, good Lord.

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People tried to get that stripped from him, but it never happened.

00:17:42.424 --> 00:17:46.586
I get you know as a product of the times and everything, so maybe not take it away, but it just sucks that he won such a prestigious award for something so fucking terrible done to people.

00:17:46.586 --> 00:17:48.888
Yeah, fucking terrible, yeah, done to people yeah.

00:17:49.709 --> 00:18:03.176
So the last performed lobotomy in the United States, which was in 1967 by Dr Walter Freeman, the one who did Rosemary's on a patient named Helen Mortensen- Helen Mortensen okay.

00:18:03.176 --> 00:18:07.999
Mortensen had been one of Freeman's first lobotomy patients in 1946.

00:18:07.999 --> 00:18:09.140
So wait, he did two of them.

00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:11.520
He performed a second on her what a dick.

00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:13.741
In 1956, he did two of them.

00:18:13.741 --> 00:18:16.064
He performed a second on her what a dick.

00:18:16.064 --> 00:18:18.325
In 1956, after she relapsed.

00:18:18.325 --> 00:18:22.256
However, she relapsed again in 1967 and died after receiving a third lobotomy.

00:18:22.464 --> 00:18:24.392
Holy Christ, she went through three Mm-hmm.

00:18:24.392 --> 00:18:25.154
That's crazy.

00:18:25.925 --> 00:18:31.231
After this, freeman's hospital privileges were revoked Good, and then he retired Good.

00:18:34.664 --> 00:18:35.567
With no other implications.

00:18:35.586 --> 00:18:40.938
That's bullshit wow, that is the story of the lobotomy of miss rosemary kennedy that is weird.

00:18:41.218 --> 00:18:46.780
I mean, I knew she had a lobotomy, but I didn't know anything else about her, really.

00:18:46.780 --> 00:18:50.107
But uh, besides that she was in wisconsin, I did know that.

00:18:50.228 --> 00:18:50.469
Did you?

00:18:50.628 --> 00:18:55.556
Yeah, but it's amazing that people for what did you say?

00:18:55.556 --> 00:18:58.160
35 is when you did the first one, that guy who won the Nobel.

00:19:00.265 --> 00:19:01.288
Potentially the 80s.

00:19:01.631 --> 00:19:03.269
Yeah, 50 years.

00:19:03.269 --> 00:19:07.871
People are just like, hey, we're going to slice a part of your brain out because it's going to make you better.

00:19:07.871 --> 00:19:13.132
It's like, no, it's not, but all right, so weird, joe's an asshole.

00:19:13.952 --> 00:19:15.915
Yeah, he's not a nice guy.

00:19:16.096 --> 00:19:18.599
No, sorry, kennedys, but Joe's an asshole.

00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.647
Yeah, that's weird.

00:19:22.647 --> 00:19:25.435
All right, well, I suppose.

00:19:25.435 --> 00:19:27.007
All right, buffoons.

00:19:27.007 --> 00:19:28.231
That's it for today's episode.

00:19:31.924 --> 00:19:33.410
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00:19:33.410 --> 00:19:40.394
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00:19:40.955 --> 00:19:42.300
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00:19:42.300 --> 00:19:47.251
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00:19:47.251 --> 00:19:51.875
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00:19:52.459 --> 00:19:57.233
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00:19:57.494 --> 00:20:00.726
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00:20:01.185 --> 00:20:03.307
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00:20:03.307 --> 00:20:09.029
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The Origin of Weird: Rosemary Kennedy/Lobotomy

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