April 14, 2025

You're Lucky You're A Person: Lizzie Cyr/Famous 5 Part 2

You're Lucky You're A Person: Lizzie Cyr/Famous 5 Part 2
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"You're not a qualified person." With these dismissive words, the Canadian government repeatedly denied women access to the Senate based on a narrow interpretation of constitutional language. But in 1927, five determined women gathered over tea in Edmonton to launch a legal challenge that would reverberate throughout the British Empire.

The story begins with Lizzie Cyr, a sex worker arrested for vagrancy in Calgary, whose case inadvertently exposed the precarious legal standing of women in public office. This leads us to the Famous Five: Emily Murphy (the first female magistrate in the British Empire), Louise McKinney (temperance advocate and women's suffrage champion), Henrietta Edwards (legal expert called "Otter Woman" by Indigenous communities), Irene Parlby (rural women's advocate and cabinet minister), and Nellie McClung (fiery novelist and suffragist).

Facing constant opposition from men who disrupted their political meetings, these women cleverly rebranded their gatherings as "Pink Teas" – social events men typically avoided. Their petition asked a simple question: does the word "persons" in the constitution include women? When Canada's Supreme Court ruled against them in 1928, they appealed to Britain's Privy Council, which overturned the decision in 1929. Lord Sankey's landmark ruling established the "living tree doctrine" – the principle that constitutions must evolve with changing times.

Yet the Famous Five's legacy carries a troubling contradiction. While fighting brilliantly for women's legal recognition, all five supported eugenics – advocating for policies that led to thousands being sterilized without consent in Alberta until 1972. Their story reminds us that historical figures rarely fit into neat categories of hero or villain, often reflecting both the progressive and regressive ideas of their time.

Listen and decide for yourself how we should remember these complex women who fundamentally changed the legal standing of women while simultaneously promoting ideas we now recognize as deeply harmful.


https://www.famous5.ca/

The Famous 5 and the infamous Lizzie
By Diane Woollard 
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC80555/


The Canadian Encyclopedia by Catherine Cavanaugh, Susanna McLeod, Mary E. Hallett, Eliane Leslau Silverman, Susan Jackel
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/henrietta-louise-edwards#Eugenics

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00:00 - Episode Introduction

03:32 - Recap of Lizzie Sear's Case

05:16 - Introducing the Famous Five

13:34 - The Persons Case Background

16:42 - The Supreme Court Battle

22:10 - Victory at the Privy Council

27:22 - The Dark Side: Eugenics Support

39:18 - Legacy and Final Thoughts

WEBVTT

00:00:16.111 --> 00:00:17.713
Oh, hey there, oh hey there.

00:00:17.733 --> 00:00:18.632
How's it going, you?

00:00:18.632 --> 00:00:19.974
Went first I did.

00:00:19.974 --> 00:00:22.236
It's a rarity, sometimes I'm allowed.

00:00:22.236 --> 00:00:25.018
That's rude.

00:00:25.018 --> 00:00:30.431
I mean you usually jump together like there, there, there, there there there, there, there, there, there there.

00:00:30.431 --> 00:00:34.604
So yeah, so we are about to what.

00:00:36.740 --> 00:00:38.667
You always fail to introduce us.

00:00:39.962 --> 00:00:41.067
When you go first.

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This is why I go first.

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That's Kate.

00:00:43.945 --> 00:00:44.606
I'm Bradley.

00:00:44.606 --> 00:00:45.509
We're the History Buffoons.

00:00:45.530 --> 00:00:54.872
Yes we are, yes, and if you have not yet listened to the Lizzie Sear episode, yes.

00:00:55.573 --> 00:00:55.954
Part one.

00:00:56.502 --> 00:00:58.280
That is part one to our story.

00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:06.531
This is going to be part two, and we have a special drink to commemorate this part too.

00:01:06.531 --> 00:01:11.911
Yeah, so I'm excited to get into this and figure out why I got the drinks that we got.

00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:17.611
Figure out more why, and also to uh conclude our story about Lizzie Sears.

00:01:17.611 --> 00:01:18.251
Lizzie Sears.

00:01:18.272 --> 00:01:35.248
Yeah, and the, the big government, the major development that is happening lizzie sear anyways okay and so here we go yeah, okay, so I got us a pink drink.

00:01:35.248 --> 00:01:41.349
Pink drink no, it is not starbucks pink drink, which I don't even know what that is, but is that a thing?

00:01:41.349 --> 00:01:42.093
It is a thing.

00:01:42.093 --> 00:01:56.694
Apparently it was on their hidden menu and then people loved it so much that they put it on their actual menu menu I don't know what it is I don't care what I got is sea grumps escapes jamaican me happy it is called jamaican me happy um.

00:01:56.914 --> 00:02:00.867
It is from rochester, new york, and it is essentially a wine cooler.

00:02:01.289 --> 00:02:08.292
It's pretty much, pretty much a wine cooler so it's funny, because wine coolers is a misnomer, it's malt based.

00:02:08.632 --> 00:02:09.253
It is malt.

00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.825
So it's more like a beer than a wine cooler, but they're just Bartles and James.

00:02:13.825 --> 00:02:25.931
Back in the day they used to be wine based and anyways, they're still considered a wine cooler, even though they're an alternative malt beverage these days.

00:02:26.453 --> 00:02:28.014
Okay so.

00:02:28.376 --> 00:02:28.575
Yes.

00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:35.233
Tell the folks what we have the pink drink in A mug, a tea mug.

00:02:35.873 --> 00:02:36.093
Yes.

00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.467
It's a pink drink in a tea mug.

00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:40.606
And there's significance to this.

00:02:40.627 --> 00:02:45.469
Yes, no, I just wanted to shoot the shit and do something crazy.

00:02:45.469 --> 00:02:46.091
Oh so what'd?

00:02:46.091 --> 00:03:00.002
You do today organize the pink drink oh, okay no, we're gonna cheers, we're gonna drink through the, the very large teacup that I have, because I do not have small teacups like you, wouldn't?

00:03:00.443 --> 00:03:23.985
the british lands, cheers, cheers, that's so sweet I've never I don't think I've ever had one of these before I used I used to sell a lot of these yeah it was one of the uh, I'd say top, top flavors that I sold it's pretty good actually I like it.

00:03:24.006 --> 00:03:28.069
It's not bad, okay.

00:03:28.069 --> 00:03:35.222
So, as a brief recap of last week's episode on lizzie sear yes, so she was arrested for vagrancy.

00:03:35.222 --> 00:03:37.508
Yes, um, which is a sex worker.

00:03:37.508 --> 00:03:39.012
Um, that was the title back then.

00:03:39.012 --> 00:03:43.707
Yeah, in 1970, 17, and she ended up in front of the magistrate.

00:03:43.929 --> 00:03:51.169
Alice jameson yeah, who shouldn't have been but was, but isn't now she is yes and so this is all taking place in calgary, alberta.

00:03:51.371 --> 00:04:04.269
yes, so back then they mostly use vagrancy laws to control prostitution right and because of the way society blames sex workers and their growing fear of stis, lizzie got a pretty rough deal from Jameson Sure.

00:04:04.269 --> 00:04:10.318
Now remember, jameson was only the second woman magistrate in the British Empire at this point.

00:04:10.438 --> 00:04:10.680
Yep, yep, yep.

00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:18.536
David Bright, a historian, points out that there is this deep-seated sexism in how the law dealt with sex workers.

00:04:18.536 --> 00:04:27.617
Sure, and he argues that Jameson really jumped the gun, sentencing Lizzie to six months of hard labor without even letting her lawyer like properly defend her.

00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:29.826
Yeah, she just said this is what you get.

00:04:29.968 --> 00:04:32.507
Yeah, and Lizzie's lawyer wasn't having it.

00:04:32.708 --> 00:04:34.826
Well, no, and can you blame him?

00:04:34.826 --> 00:04:39.485
Yes, he was trying to do his job Do his job and he liked doing his job.

00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:49.124
So he appealed the case and one of his arguments was that Jameson, being a woman, didn't have the legal right to be a magistrate.

00:04:49.124 --> 00:04:53.954
But the Alberta Court of Repeal shot that down, saying basically that there was no legal reason women shouldn't hold office.

00:04:53.954 --> 00:05:05.115
That decision, along with other examples of women in public roles, really helped pave the way for this next part of the story which is thecha which is the famous five and the persons case.

00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:09.932
Famous fives and the person case Persons, persons.

00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:12.245
As in multiple persons, oh persons.

00:05:13.048 --> 00:05:13.329
Okay.

00:05:13.529 --> 00:05:14.411
Okay, gotcha.

00:05:14.411 --> 00:05:16.887
So we're going to talk about the famous five.

00:05:16.887 --> 00:05:17.850
They are five women.

00:05:17.850 --> 00:05:22.668
Okay, so I'm going to just kind of go do-do-do-do-do and kind of like explain each one of them.

00:05:22.668 --> 00:05:29.946
The first one you might remember from our first story, sure, and it's okay if you don't I will mention who.

00:05:29.946 --> 00:05:33.889
She is Good, so the first famous five is Emily Murphy.

00:05:34.511 --> 00:05:34.750
Yes.

00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.858
Emily Murphy lived from 1868 to 1933.

00:05:38.858 --> 00:05:41.910
Okay, she was a suffragist, a reformer, a writer.

00:05:41.910 --> 00:05:55.139
She was most remarkable in that she became the first female magistrate in the entire british empire in 1916 wow, where allison jameson was the second correct, yep, okay.

00:05:55.139 --> 00:06:06.209
So one of the famous, five is one is the first female magistrate 1916, and one was the other one, the second one um, I don't know when she was appointed, but the story took place in 1917.

00:06:06.750 --> 00:06:08.014
Okay, yeah, all right, yes.

00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:14.137
So before that, Emily Murphy really focused on getting women the right to own property.

00:06:14.658 --> 00:06:14.800
Right.

00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:26.091
She pushed hard for what became the Married Women's Protective Act in Alberta in 1911, which gave wives and kids some security if their husbands end up leaving.

00:06:26.591 --> 00:06:26.812
Sure.

00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:32.492
And her work as a judge and her advocacy for women and children made her pretty famous across Canada.

00:06:32.492 --> 00:06:42.791
Right, and because of all that, a lot of people wanted her to be appointed to the Senate, of course, but the federal government said women aren't qualified persons.

00:06:44.540 --> 00:06:44.961
Jesus Christ.

00:06:45.103 --> 00:07:05.995
Super polite way of saying no yeah, you suck now, emily murphy is not one to back down well, good for her she has the same quote whenever I don't know whether to fight or not, I fight, end quote I know that's supposed to be like moving, but no shit, but okay.

00:07:05.995 --> 00:07:09.911
Famous five, number two, louise McKinley.

00:07:10.300 --> 00:07:11.423
Louise McKinley.

00:07:11.564 --> 00:07:12.889
Nope Louise McKinney.

00:07:13.401 --> 00:07:14.386
Louise McKinney.

00:07:14.961 --> 00:07:17.738
Lived 1868 to 1931.

00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:17.839
Okay.

00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:29.846
She was a dedicated organizer and a huge supporter of the Women's Christian Temperance Union Okay, a group that was really focused on protecting women and children by getting rid of alcohol.

00:07:30.702 --> 00:07:32.413
Oh, as I'm about to take a sip of one.

00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:33.384
Let's do that right now.

00:07:33.384 --> 00:07:35.346
Let's cheers to prohibition.

00:07:35.346 --> 00:07:44.466
Louise was known for being determined, hardworking and not afraid to speak her mind.

00:07:45.067 --> 00:07:45.309
Good.

00:07:45.761 --> 00:07:56.771
Her activism played a big role in getting women the right to vote in Alberta, and she was also a major force behind Prohibition, which went into effect in 1916, though it was later repealed we all know Yep.

00:07:56.771 --> 00:08:03.752
She also fought for the Dower Act in Alberta, which gave women the right to stop their homes from being sold or mortgaged without them knowing, because, holy crap, apparently you can.

00:08:03.752 --> 00:08:08.547
Bardo, which gave women the right to stop their homes from being sold or mortgaged without them knowing Because, holy crap, apparently you can just lose your house.

00:08:08.968 --> 00:08:09.550
That's wild.

00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.266
Famous five, number three yes.

00:08:12.266 --> 00:08:13.963
Henrietta Edwards.

00:08:14.305 --> 00:08:15.307
Henrietta, mm-hmm.

00:08:15.307 --> 00:08:15.509
Okay.

00:08:16.019 --> 00:08:18.459
She lived from 1849 to 1931.

00:08:18.459 --> 00:08:20.807
She was the oldest out of the five.

00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:23.629
Do all of these die in, like the early 30s?

00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:30.500
Good Lord no, okay.

00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:31.903
Out of the five, do all of these die in like the early 30s?

00:08:31.903 --> 00:08:32.465
Um good lord?

00:08:32.465 --> 00:08:32.705
No, okay.

00:08:32.705 --> 00:08:46.873
Good, uh, she um henrietta edwards was an artist and a legal expert of sorts, um both men and women would come to her for advice on legal matters, especially those affecting women and children makes sense in 1990, nope, in 1893 she played a key role in founding the National Council of Women of Canada.

00:08:47.113 --> 00:08:47.394
Okay.

00:08:47.841 --> 00:08:54.071
It's still around today and it's working to improve life for women, families and society as a whole.

00:08:54.491 --> 00:08:54.731
Right.

00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.688
Henrietta was known for being thoughtful, caring and really determined.

00:08:59.149 --> 00:08:59.532
That's nice.

00:08:59.740 --> 00:09:04.532
She believed women shouldn't be slaves to fashion, that it distracted them from more important things.

00:09:04.532 --> 00:09:08.145
She even refused to wear corsets, which was a thing at the time.

00:09:08.145 --> 00:09:22.351
Sure, and besides her work with the National Council of Women of Canada, she launched Canada's first women's magazine and helped create the model for the Canadian YWCA.

00:09:23.299 --> 00:09:23.741
YW.

00:09:23.741 --> 00:09:25.823
Is that like the YMCA, like it's like the?

00:09:26.004 --> 00:09:27.470
YMCA, but for women.

00:09:27.470 --> 00:09:34.109
So YWCA like women, yeah, youth Women Community Association.

00:09:34.109 --> 00:09:35.150
What is the C?

00:09:35.171 --> 00:09:35.952
I always forget.

00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:38.964
Should we ask working men?

00:09:40.307 --> 00:09:40.889
Working men.

00:09:40.950 --> 00:09:43.586
Isn't, don't they do the YMCA song?

00:09:43.586 --> 00:09:46.625
Is that not working men?

00:09:46.625 --> 00:09:54.666
No, the village people, that's right, the working men, they all have jobs.

00:09:57.042 --> 00:10:04.488
Oh my god, the working men, the village people, wow, they all have jobs.

00:10:04.528 --> 00:10:08.375
The village people, oh wow, but they all have jobs.

00:10:10.561 --> 00:10:12.607
I mean there's a fireman and and a policeman.

00:10:12.628 --> 00:10:15.245
Yeah, they're all working men.

00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:15.861
I'm sorry.

00:10:15.861 --> 00:10:16.886
Native American.

00:10:17.539 --> 00:10:24.817
Okay, so Henrietta Edwards was also one of the founders of the Victorian Order of Nurses in 1897.

00:10:24.817 --> 00:10:27.658
Okay, was also one of the founders of the Victorian Order of Nurses in 1897.

00:10:27.658 --> 00:10:32.116
She and her husband, Dr Oliver Edwards, lived on several indigenous reservations in Saskatchewan and Alberta.

00:10:32.136 --> 00:10:33.077
Ooh Saskatchewan.

00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:41.284
Her wise and compassionate advice earned her the name Otter Woman, otter Mm-hmm, from the women that she lived with, from the people that she lived with.

00:10:41.284 --> 00:10:42.421
Oh, okay, okay.

00:10:42.421 --> 00:10:43.927
Famous five number four.

00:10:44.301 --> 00:10:45.405
Famous five, number four.

00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:46.946
Irene Parleby.

00:10:47.581 --> 00:10:49.447
Oh, I've heard of her, have you no?

00:10:49.940 --> 00:10:53.557
She lived from 1868 to 1965.

00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.388
Holy shit, someone made it past the 30s.

00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:00.629
Yes, she was actually born in London and then became a farmer's wife out in Western Canada.

00:11:00.629 --> 00:11:04.649
Okay, she was a huge advocate for rural farm women in Alberta.

00:11:04.649 --> 00:11:11.666
In 1916 she organized and became the first president of the United Farm Women's Association.

00:11:12.501 --> 00:11:13.183
Great organization.

00:11:13.706 --> 00:11:17.726
Irene was known for her elegance, charm and quiet determination.

00:11:17.726 --> 00:11:25.865
She wasn't looking to get into politics, but she ended up being elected to the Alberta legislature in 1921.

00:11:25.865 --> 00:11:36.924
She was part of the United Farmers of Alberta party and she even became the first female cabinet minister in Alberta and the second in the British empire.

00:11:36.924 --> 00:11:42.495
Despite this, she was incredibly effective.

00:11:42.495 --> 00:11:58.357
She convinced the minister of health to create mobile medical clinics, the minister of education to set up distance learning and other ministers to make significant changes for rural Albertians, albertans, albertans or Albertians, albertans Albertans.

00:11:58.357 --> 00:12:03.789
She also became known as the minister of cooperation the minister of cooperation.

00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:12.806
That just is a funny title, it is Later, in 1930, prime Minister Bennett asked her to be one of Canada's delegates at the League of Nations meeting in Geneva.

00:12:12.826 --> 00:12:13.990
Oh, wow.

00:12:14.129 --> 00:12:15.605
All right Famous for number five.

00:12:15.605 --> 00:12:17.384
This is Nellie McClung.

00:12:17.384 --> 00:12:21.318
She lived from 1873 to 1951.

00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:21.419
Okay.

00:12:21.900 --> 00:12:29.292
She was a real powerhouse A novelist, reformer, journalist and a key figure in the suffragette movement.

00:12:29.613 --> 00:12:29.953
Gotcha.

00:12:30.259 --> 00:12:36.548
She was known for being feisty and charismatic Okay, with a knack for winning people over with humor.

00:12:36.548 --> 00:12:38.802
That's what I do, I feel like.

00:12:38.802 --> 00:12:41.129
That's me To a T.

00:12:41.129 --> 00:12:43.346
I'm a novelist, a reformer and a journalist.

00:12:43.346 --> 00:12:45.735
A journalist, and I am feisty and charismatic.

00:12:45.735 --> 00:12:48.764
None of the above, okay you really are beneath the charm.

00:12:49.447 --> 00:12:50.769
She was incredibly determined.

00:12:50.769 --> 00:13:05.001
Sure, she spearheaded the fight to get women the right to vote in north america, and her work directly led to manitoba being the first province to grant women's suffrage and the right to hold office in 1916 so she fought for north america.

00:13:05.042 --> 00:13:06.024
So she fought for North America.

00:13:06.024 --> 00:13:08.589
So she fought for it in the United States too, not just Canada, Mm-hmm Wow.

00:13:09.671 --> 00:13:11.173
When she moved west to Alberta.

00:13:11.173 --> 00:13:25.200
It just so happened that both Alberta and Saskatchewan granted women the right to vote soon after Okay Nellie was elected as liberal MLA for Edmonton from 1921 to 1926.

00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:34.815
So during that time she often teamed up with Irene Pearlby, even though they were from different political parties, to work on issues affecting women and children.

00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:39.370
So wait, you're telling me that people in different political parties can work together.

00:13:39.370 --> 00:13:42.682
I know right, that doesn't seem fucking right at all, that doesn't seem fucking right at all.

00:13:42.701 --> 00:13:55.972
So Nellie also broke ground as the first female director of the boards of governors, where she really pushed for women to be decision makers, not just assistants, sure, and in 1938, she was chosen as a delegate to the League of Nations in Geneva.

00:13:56.253 --> 00:13:56.653
Okay.

00:13:57.134 --> 00:14:08.148
And she was one of the few Canadians who advocated for voting rights for Asian Canadians and, like many progressives of her time, we get more into this.

00:14:08.148 --> 00:14:14.105
Nellie also supported the idea of sterilization, believing it would improve quality of life.

00:14:15.041 --> 00:14:16.486
That seems like a terrible fucking idea.

00:14:16.506 --> 00:14:17.640
Yeah, we will get on, we will.

00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:18.966
I will come circle back.

00:14:18.966 --> 00:14:20.325
I will circle back to that.

00:14:20.445 --> 00:14:21.248
Circle back okay.

00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.006
Okay, so that's the famous five, right?

00:14:23.006 --> 00:14:41.379
Yeah, they're all in politics at some level right right, they're all activists of some kind and 60 die in the 30s okay, so section 24 of the british north america act okay which was basically canada's constitution.

00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:45.532
Back then, gotcha laid out who would be appointed to the Senate.

00:14:45.532 --> 00:14:51.309
The Canadian government had always read that as men only, isn't that?

00:14:51.370 --> 00:14:51.610
weird.

00:14:52.442 --> 00:14:58.402
It was also based on this old fashioned idea that men were supposed to be in charge and women were supposed to follow.

00:14:59.105 --> 00:15:04.863
Yeah, I mean I get the time frame we're talking about, so that's clearly part of that.

00:15:04.863 --> 00:15:08.591
But to think back on it, it's like okay.

00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:26.866
So back in 1876, when some women in England tried to vote, which was a big no-no, they got arrested, and when the judge made his ruling he actually quoted some ancient English law that said women were only entitled to quote pains and penalties, end quote, and not rights and privileges.

00:15:28.101 --> 00:15:30.732
So they can get punished, but yet they don't get anything.

00:15:30.732 --> 00:15:32.297
They don't get benefits.

00:15:32.957 --> 00:15:44.269
That's fucking weird, wow so of course, women like emily murphy yeah the magistrate, furious sure I mean, why wouldn't she be?

00:15:44.269 --> 00:15:48.500
They were being told they weren't qualified persons, which was absurd.

00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:50.725
Well, yeah, because clearly they were.

00:15:50.725 --> 00:15:54.278
I mean especially the one that all those people went for advice and shit.

00:15:54.278 --> 00:15:54.700
What was her?

00:15:54.700 --> 00:15:54.801
Her?

00:15:54.821 --> 00:15:55.903
name yeah, henrietta.

00:15:56.043 --> 00:16:08.320
Edwards yeah, so it's like clearly she was qualified, people went to her all the time for advice, but yet you're, just because of some antiquated law, you'd be like, no, you're, you can't do this.

00:16:09.676 --> 00:16:12.823
So Emily Murphy was determined to find find a way back.

00:16:12.823 --> 00:16:13.767
She did.

00:16:13.767 --> 00:16:22.490
One of her brothers, emily's brothers, told her about a little-known clause in the Supreme Court of Canada Act.

00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:22.913
Was it?

00:16:22.953 --> 00:16:23.174
Santa.

00:16:24.397 --> 00:16:33.044
It basically said that any five people could ask the Supreme Court to interpret any part of the Constitution.

00:16:33.394 --> 00:16:35.022
Hence the reason there are the famous five.

00:16:35.556 --> 00:16:38.436
On a beautiful summer day is that relevant?

00:16:38.436 --> 00:16:42.966
Yes, august 27th, it was a beautiful day in 1927.

00:16:42.966 --> 00:16:46.816
Okay, four of these women what happened to the?

00:16:46.816 --> 00:16:51.369
These women activists all met at emily murphy's house, aka five.

00:16:52.051 --> 00:16:57.647
Four women came to emily murphy's house, because that was not clear so they are in edmonton.

00:16:57.715 --> 00:17:01.123
They're about three hours north of calgary, which is where lizzie sear was.

00:17:01.123 --> 00:17:08.022
Yes, okay, so they sat on her veranda enjoying tea is that why we're having this?

00:17:08.022 --> 00:17:12.269
Kind of oh yes and no yes what's the no part?

00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:14.919
I'll tell you later oh but they enjoy.

00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.589
But they signed a letter asking the government to send some very specific questions to the Supreme Court.

00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:26.246
So they're trying to do the whole step up like hey, pass this on to your boss, kind of a thing.

00:17:26.246 --> 00:17:31.343
Sure, so they're like we have questions, please send this off to the Supreme Court.

00:17:31.343 --> 00:17:37.655
Gotcha Now, throughout their quest in their petition they faced a lot of opposition right.

00:17:37.876 --> 00:17:38.538
Their suffrage.

00:17:38.538 --> 00:17:50.236
Meetings were often disrupted, so they got, because every time cause people didn't want them to be persons, qualified persons, they don't want them to hold office.

00:17:50.236 --> 00:17:52.739
They were constantly getting interrupted by men.

00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:53.980
Well, duh.

00:17:54.361 --> 00:17:55.663
But women got clever.

00:17:55.663 --> 00:18:09.185
Women traditionally had tea parties for all sorts of occasions, right Sure, Baby showers, weddings, other women's events and men didn't usually go to those.

00:18:09.185 --> 00:18:13.599
Oh no, because the suffragists started calling their political meeting pink teas.

00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:16.644
Pink teas and just like that disruptors stayed away.

00:18:16.644 --> 00:18:17.025
They never came.

00:18:17.025 --> 00:18:18.807
Started calling their political meeting pink teas, Pink teas, and just like that.

00:18:18.807 --> 00:18:19.508
Disruptors stayed away.

00:18:19.508 --> 00:18:20.230
They never came.

00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:22.512
They never came to disrupt their pink tea meetings.

00:18:22.512 --> 00:18:28.641
Hence the reason why we're having we're having pink alcohol in a giant tea mug.

00:18:28.661 --> 00:18:29.561
This is really large.

00:18:29.903 --> 00:18:35.911
Mm-hmm Okay.

00:18:41.875 --> 00:18:42.896
So that is why we have a pink drink.

00:18:42.916 --> 00:18:44.740
I appreciate the interaction here.

00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:46.824
Okay, so this the questions that they ask the supreme court.

00:18:46.824 --> 00:19:00.625
The first one yeah is power vested in the governor general, in council of canada, the parliament of Canada or either of them, to appoint a female to the Senate of Canada.

00:19:00.625 --> 00:19:03.603
So who makes that decision essentially Right?

00:19:03.603 --> 00:19:17.001
Number two is it constitutionally possible for the parliament of Canada, under the provisions of the British North America act or otherwise, to make provision for the appointment of a female to the Senate of Canada?

00:19:17.001 --> 00:19:18.465
Okay, Okay.

00:19:19.375 --> 00:19:26.779
Prime Minister Mackenzie King, just like those before him, were swamped with requests to appoint women to the Senate.

00:19:26.779 --> 00:19:51.044
Sure, okay, approximately 500,000 people requested that Emily Murphy, as a magistrate, be a senator, but the official line was always sorry, it's not legally possible so they shot it down because of this again old law, basically so or bias, whatever you want to call it when the famous five sent their letter to king's office.

00:19:51.223 --> 00:19:53.661
Yeah, he sent it to the justice department.

00:19:53.661 --> 00:19:56.092
Okay, the justice department said they suggested taking it to the Justice Department.

00:19:56.092 --> 00:20:02.180
Okay, the Justice Department said they suggested taking it to the Supreme Court but wanted to keep the question simple.

00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:09.824
So they said the question is now does quote unquote persons in the Constitution include women?

00:20:09.824 --> 00:20:12.714
That was their question for the Supreme Court.

00:20:12.714 --> 00:20:14.121
That is a terrible question.

00:20:14.121 --> 00:20:16.582
It became known as the person's case.

00:20:16.582 --> 00:20:21.967
Okay, so it was argued in March 1928.

00:20:21.967 --> 00:20:35.730
Okay so Chief Justice Francis Alexander Anglin started looking at the rules for appointing senators which are in the Constitution Act of 1867.

00:20:35.730 --> 00:20:40.666
Section 23, which I had mentioned early on, lists the qualifications.

00:20:40.666 --> 00:20:44.701
You have to be at least 30, a British.

00:20:44.701 --> 00:20:47.709
Subject own a certain amount of property.

00:20:48.434 --> 00:20:48.957
So like what?

00:20:48.957 --> 00:20:50.342
Two acres I mean it?

00:20:50.883 --> 00:20:54.976
doesn't say and live in the province you're representing, which?

00:20:55.417 --> 00:20:55.859
I get that.

00:20:56.056 --> 00:21:17.549
That makes sense but a section of section 23 uses the pronoun he when it talks about these qualifications and that's what led people to argue.

00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:23.474
You walk up to a group of people and I mean I do it just because I guess how I was raised or whatever.

00:21:23.474 --> 00:21:28.508
Let's say there's I walk up to a group of friends, there's three girls and three guys.

00:21:28.508 --> 00:21:30.436
I usually go.

00:21:30.436 --> 00:21:31.698
What are you guys doing?

00:21:32.259 --> 00:21:48.309
yeah that doesn't mean I'm discounting the women there yeah, yeah it's just all encompassing general speak, yeah, or it's just like and it's funny because like for okay, the oscars just happened not that long ago there's best actress and there's best actor.

00:21:48.309 --> 00:21:52.159
Typically you don't differentiate that.

00:21:52.159 --> 00:22:00.019
If you were an actor, I wouldn't go hello actress, you just go, you're a good actor yeah you know.

00:22:00.019 --> 00:22:05.194
So it's funny that like they fucking some are generalized and some are specific.

00:22:05.194 --> 00:22:13.079
Correct, yeah and they tried to use that to their advantage, saying nope, sorry, just just just, guys, because it says he yeah, yeah which I get.

00:22:13.181 --> 00:22:15.104
He represents the males.

00:22:15.124 --> 00:22:15.766
The males yeah.

00:22:15.925 --> 00:22:25.512
Whatever in that, but it doesn't mean it's all encompassing, yeah, so so then there's section 24, which is about how senators get appointed.

00:22:25.532 --> 00:22:31.468
Okay, and it said, quote the governor general shall summon qualified persons to the state.

00:22:31.468 --> 00:22:35.675
So who are these qualified persons, right state?

00:22:35.675 --> 00:22:36.619
So who are these qualified persons, right?

00:22:36.619 --> 00:22:42.018
All five judges agreed that qualified persons doesn't include women.

00:22:42.018 --> 00:22:55.483
So and let me guess, all all those people were male yeah, oh, uh so I think so shit, I don't know actually I, I would assume oh yeah, I would assume.

00:22:55.964 --> 00:22:57.686
I mean whether we're wrong or not.

00:22:57.807 --> 00:23:00.329
It would make sense because of who they are and whatever.

00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:00.971
Yeah, exactly.

00:23:01.336 --> 00:23:04.023
So of course they're just going to fucking keep towing that line.

00:23:04.184 --> 00:23:14.500
Yeah, so Ellen Smith, who was the first female member of the legislative assembly, which is the MLA, I had told you about I couldn't remember the acronym.

00:23:14.882 --> 00:23:15.603
What is it called again?

00:23:15.763 --> 00:23:17.686
Member of the legislative assembly.

00:23:17.906 --> 00:23:19.009
Yeah, the MLA Okay.

00:23:21.974 --> 00:23:22.977
So Ellen Smith was the first female member of this.

00:23:22.977 --> 00:23:33.326
She expressed the collective disappointment of women across America saying, quote it felt like a crushing blow to hear a man declare his own mother wasn't a person.

00:23:33.326 --> 00:23:40.921
I was like, ouch, I love, I love that, that line that's pretty great, because it's like how's, how stupid is that?

00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:41.162
like?

00:23:41.162 --> 00:23:41.623
What do you mean?

00:23:41.623 --> 00:23:42.704
We're not a person.

00:23:42.704 --> 00:23:47.584
Yeah, that just doesn't make sense yeah even for that time it's like what the fuck?

00:23:48.105 --> 00:23:57.875
so it's important to know that the point this at this point in canada history the supreme court's decision on constitutional questions weren't final right.

00:23:57.875 --> 00:24:00.701
So the five famous five weren't about to give up.

00:24:00.701 --> 00:24:10.356
They took their case to the highest court at the time, which was not the supreme court, it was the judicial committee of the privy council in britain.

00:24:10.356 --> 00:24:14.827
Privy council, yeah, because their names were listed alphabetically on the appeal.

00:24:14.827 --> 00:24:20.503
Henrietta edwards, um, she was the one with all the legal advice and the eldest of all of them.

00:24:20.503 --> 00:24:30.240
Yeah, her name came first, so the case is officially called edwards versus canada makes sense, okay, okay, okay so you think the other four are like what the fuck man?

00:24:30.583 --> 00:24:32.933
yeah, and most people know it as like the person's case.

00:24:32.933 --> 00:24:37.011
But just to be clear so on october 18th 1929.

00:24:37.011 --> 00:24:48.546
They got their answer okay lord sankey, the lord chancellor, wrote the decision for the privy council and he completely overturned the supreme court's ruling.

00:24:48.546 --> 00:24:53.698
Oh, wow he said that qualified persons could definitely include women.

00:24:53.698 --> 00:24:54.479
No kidding.

00:24:54.479 --> 00:25:02.080
He even called the idea of excluding women from public office a quote relic of days more barbarous than ours.

00:25:02.141 --> 00:25:05.015
Well see, and that's the thing, it's like you have to update your shit.

00:25:05.496 --> 00:25:10.287
And then he said quote why should the word person not include females?

00:25:10.287 --> 00:25:11.028
End quote.

00:25:11.174 --> 00:25:12.741
Because we're all persons.

00:25:13.895 --> 00:25:25.307
He concluded that the word persons in the Constitution included both men and women and therefore women were eligible to be appointed by the state, and he would advise King directly the chancellor.

00:25:26.015 --> 00:25:29.345
So this has no bearing on anything.

00:25:29.345 --> 00:25:37.978
But so let's say a crime was committed and there's persons of interest, so they'd only pick men.

00:25:37.998 --> 00:25:39.884
That's a good question, you know what?

00:25:39.903 --> 00:25:47.127
I mean yeah, because, let's say, this woman killed this other woman, for that matter.

00:25:47.268 --> 00:25:47.407
Yeah.

00:25:47.775 --> 00:25:49.342
Persons of interest had to be a man.

00:25:49.342 --> 00:25:50.678
I mean, how stupid is that?

00:25:50.678 --> 00:25:51.422
No, you're right.

00:25:51.997 --> 00:25:52.820
That is fair.

00:25:52.820 --> 00:25:53.041
Yeah.

00:25:53.041 --> 00:26:10.882
So to reach this groundbreaking decision, Lord Sankey essentially introduced a whole new way of thinking about the Constitution, yeah, A way that is now a cornerstone in canadian law he famously described the british north america act as a living tree.

00:26:10.882 --> 00:26:14.409
A living tree mean meaning it was meant to adapt over time.

00:26:14.548 --> 00:26:23.526
Sure, likely right no, that makes sense he said the act gave canada a constitution and, like all constitutions, it was meant to evolve with changing customs and practices.

00:26:23.526 --> 00:26:30.807
So he emphasized that the Privy Council wasn't there to restrict the constitution with narrow technical interpretations.

00:26:31.128 --> 00:26:31.469
Correct.

00:26:31.894 --> 00:26:40.874
Instead, they should give it a broad and flexible reading, so that Canada could govern itself within its own boundaries, just like the provinces did.

00:26:41.034 --> 00:26:41.214
Right.

00:26:41.537 --> 00:26:44.352
This approach became known as the living tree doctrine.

00:26:44.352 --> 00:26:52.162
Oh, and it basically means the constitution should be interpreted in a large and liberal way, allowing it to adapt to modern society.

00:26:52.502 --> 00:26:53.164
Totally agree.

00:26:53.306 --> 00:27:02.711
Yeah, so while the person's case was a massive win for Canadian women in the long run, yeah, it did not immediately get Emily Murphy a seat in the Senate.

00:27:02.711 --> 00:27:14.468
Sure, okay, it actually took another year, until February 15th 1930, for Kareem Ree Wilson to become the first woman appointed to the Senate.

00:27:14.828 --> 00:27:15.169
Oh, wow.

00:27:16.451 --> 00:27:22.508
Okay, we're going to go back to some controversy, okay, okay.

00:27:22.508 --> 00:27:23.711
Okay.

00:27:23.711 --> 00:27:28.403
Now, these women, they're super complex figures, right?

00:27:28.403 --> 00:27:32.104
Yeah, and that's what made it tricky to commemorate them.

00:27:32.104 --> 00:27:36.204
Sure, they were involved in a lot of different causes, which I've mentioned.

00:27:36.204 --> 00:27:39.424
Yeah, all aimed at improving the lives of women and children.

00:27:39.444 --> 00:27:41.633
Yeah, However, oh dear, in the lives of women and children.

00:27:41.633 --> 00:27:42.075
Yeah, however, oh dear.

00:27:42.634 --> 00:27:47.943
In the early 1900s, yes, science was seen as the key to solving just about everything.

00:27:47.943 --> 00:27:54.683
People believed the scientific and technological advances could fix all sorts of social problems.

00:27:55.005 --> 00:27:56.027
But it can't, but okay.

00:27:56.346 --> 00:27:56.887
Emily Murphy.

00:27:56.887 --> 00:28:04.469
Yeah, Was one of those who believed that issues like alcoholism, drug abuse and crime stem from mental deficiencies.

00:28:04.469 --> 00:28:08.865
She was really concerned about overpopulation.

00:28:09.736 --> 00:28:12.905
Yeah, this is the one who wanted to sterilize.

00:28:13.795 --> 00:28:22.769
In a 1932 article, she argued that overpopulation was the root of many of our problems and that nothing could truly be fixed until it was addressed.

00:28:22.769 --> 00:28:33.755
Oh good Lord, as tensions leading up to World War II grew, Murphy, a pacifist, even theorized that wars were caused by nations needing more land for their growing populations.

00:28:33.955 --> 00:28:35.362
That's not what it was at all.

00:28:35.362 --> 00:28:38.404
You had psychopaths wanting to fucking just conquer.

00:28:39.055 --> 00:28:44.117
She believed that population control would reduce the need for land and therefore eliminate war.

00:28:44.117 --> 00:29:05.320
Wow, she is fucking stupid, then her solution is to sterilize people eugenics yeah, she supported selective breathing, breathing breeding, I hope they didn't do selective breathing selective breeding okay and forced sterilization of people she considered mentally deficient so what, she got the pick.

00:29:05.320 --> 00:29:17.123
I mean fuck her she argued that those she deemed mentally and socially inferior were reduced, were reproducing at a higher rate than what she called god.

00:29:17.123 --> 00:29:20.426
This is terrible Quote human thoroughbreds.

00:29:21.048 --> 00:29:22.289
So wow.

00:29:23.211 --> 00:29:23.711
Oh, I'm not done.

00:29:23.711 --> 00:29:39.627
She lobbied the Alberta government for forced sterilization, claiming that mentally defective children were a threat to society and a financial burden on the state, and that mental deficiency was hereditary.

00:29:39.627 --> 00:29:53.906
She even wrote to the Minister of Agricultural and Health, george Hoadley, about two women in mental institutions who had multiple children, calling it a crime to allow them to reproduce.

00:29:53.906 --> 00:30:03.869
The Alberta government passed a eugenics law in 1928, though initially it required a parental or guardian consent.

00:30:03.869 --> 00:30:10.028
Sure later, after death, murphy's death, the government amended the law to allow forced sterilization.

00:30:10.028 --> 00:30:31.403
So, largely due to murphy's strong advocacy, thousands of albertans were sterilized without their knowledge or consent under the sexual sterilization act, which wasn't repealed until 1972 that is diabolical oh, we're not done what a piece of shit she was.

00:30:31.463 --> 00:30:32.686
Then we're not done.

00:30:32.686 --> 00:30:43.303
I mean it's funny because you're like, let's, yeah, go women go, women and children but not these women and children but apparently go fuck yourself, because I get to tell you if you can breed or not.

00:30:43.303 --> 00:30:44.885
Fuck you.

00:30:45.727 --> 00:30:46.449
Nellie McClung.

00:30:46.669 --> 00:30:47.009
Yeah.

00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:51.118
She was also an advocate for eugenics movement.

00:30:51.118 --> 00:30:53.684
The act sterilized.

00:30:53.825 --> 00:30:54.826
Can I say something real quick?

00:30:55.028 --> 00:30:55.167
Yeah.

00:30:56.195 --> 00:30:57.541
You're building women up really good.

00:30:57.541 --> 00:30:59.779
You're shooting them fucking down right now.

00:30:59.779 --> 00:31:01.664
Wow.

00:31:05.055 --> 00:31:16.400
So the sterilization act yeah sterilized more than 2 800 people against their will and awareness from when it took effect in 1928 until it was repealed in 1972.

00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:20.786
That is wild irene parlby, also on the eugenics train.

00:31:22.788 --> 00:31:23.851
What was in this pink drink?

00:31:23.851 --> 00:31:27.363
Seriously fucking dumb bitches.

00:31:27.615 --> 00:31:39.398
She expressed sympathy for the mothers of mentally ill children and stated that the great and only solution to the problem was the sterilization of feeble-minded persons, which now include women.

00:31:39.398 --> 00:31:45.861
By the way, henrietta Edwards, was she on this train too?

00:31:45.861 --> 00:31:47.584
She was also a supporter God.

00:31:47.746 --> 00:31:49.214
Lord and she promoted.

00:31:49.214 --> 00:31:51.342
I feel bad that I like these people.

00:31:51.342 --> 00:31:52.084
Two minutes ago.

00:31:52.223 --> 00:31:59.528
I know she promoted positive eugenics, which is promoting the breeding of fit members of society.

00:31:59.714 --> 00:32:04.243
So again, like thoroughbreds, I thought you were going to be like sterilizing with a smile.

00:32:04.243 --> 00:32:06.278
Positive eugenics.

00:32:06.838 --> 00:32:08.944
It'll be fine, we can do it this is great.

00:32:09.144 --> 00:32:09.727
You're going to love it.

00:32:10.315 --> 00:32:15.865
It is not known if Louise McKinney supported mandatory sterilization of mental defectives.

00:32:15.965 --> 00:32:18.776
Come on, mckinney, redeem women Seriously.

00:32:19.037 --> 00:32:26.347
She did advocate for the creation of institutions to care for feeble-minded people and to prevent their procreation.

00:32:26.347 --> 00:32:28.480
So she she was.

00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.983
She promoted the buildings, the institutions.

00:32:31.003 --> 00:32:31.886
She was adjacent.

00:32:32.208 --> 00:32:32.690
She was.

00:32:32.750 --> 00:32:32.971
Yeah.

00:32:33.516 --> 00:32:36.102
And she also promoted really strict immigration laws.

00:32:37.545 --> 00:32:43.998
Well, okay, that's fine, but I don't know, I'm confused with the whole.

00:32:43.998 --> 00:32:49.449
Like let's just sterilize people and not to their knowledge either.

00:32:49.835 --> 00:32:53.906
Why did I, pour my second pink drink into the tea when I could have just had it from the bottle?

00:32:54.154 --> 00:32:55.401
I don't know, because you're.

00:32:56.036 --> 00:32:57.942
I'm committed to the pink drink in a tea mug.

00:32:58.997 --> 00:33:00.500
Because you're now considered a person.

00:33:01.603 --> 00:33:02.144
Oh, I think you.

00:33:02.144 --> 00:33:02.325
Okay.

00:33:02.325 --> 00:33:08.685
Emily Murphy was the first female magistrate in British Empire.

00:33:08.967 --> 00:33:09.347
Yeah.

00:33:09.515 --> 00:33:14.143
She advocated for women's property rights Okay, she pushed for social reforms.

00:33:14.143 --> 00:33:15.820
She loved eugenics.

00:33:15.820 --> 00:33:20.707
She died in her sleep in 1933, at the age of 65.

00:33:20.707 --> 00:33:25.486
Even though she won this huge victory for women's rights, she never got to be a senator.

00:33:25.914 --> 00:33:28.000
Well, probably because she wanted to.

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.786
Eugenics people, yep.

00:33:30.434 --> 00:33:33.924
Henrietta Edwards co-founded the National Council of Women of Canada.

00:33:33.924 --> 00:33:34.445
Yeah.

00:33:34.445 --> 00:33:37.243
Advocated for women's legal rights and reforms.

00:33:37.243 --> 00:33:41.484
Published Canada's first women's magazine.

00:33:41.484 --> 00:33:46.414
Reforms.

00:33:46.414 --> 00:33:47.277
Published canada's first women's magazine.

00:33:47.297 --> 00:34:01.758
She died on november 9th 1931 in fort mcleod, alberta she was 81 years old, okay nelly mclung, instrumental in manitoba manitoba's gaining women's suffrage in 1916, she was part of the members of legislative assembly.

00:34:01.758 --> 00:34:05.358
She advocated for women's rights and social reform.

00:34:05.358 --> 00:34:12.742
First female director of the CBC's board of governors whatever the hell that means Delicate to the league of nations.

00:34:12.742 --> 00:34:18.445
She died in Victoria, british Columbia, on September 1st 1951 at 71 years old.

00:34:18.445 --> 00:34:23.989
Louise McKinney, elected to Alberta legislature in 1917.

00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:26.469
First woman elected in the British Empire.

00:34:26.650 --> 00:34:26.949
Yeah.

00:34:27.329 --> 00:34:29.590
Advocated for women's suffrage and prohibition.

00:34:29.791 --> 00:34:30.391
And eugenics.

00:34:31.271 --> 00:34:35.597
She was the one that we're like, she was the institution one, she was the adjacent.

00:34:35.597 --> 00:34:41.068
She championed social welfare measures and she died on July 10th 1931 at the age of 63.

00:34:41.327 --> 00:34:41.608
Okay.

00:34:42.436 --> 00:34:46.206
And then Irene Parlebyby elected to the Alabama legislature.

00:34:46.226 --> 00:34:46.927
Alabama.

00:34:47.315 --> 00:34:51.362
Sorry, alberta, alberta legislature.

00:34:51.362 --> 00:34:54.844
She was the first female Alberta cabinet minister.

00:34:54.844 --> 00:34:57.271
Right, advocated for rural women.

00:34:57.271 --> 00:34:57.653
Okay.

00:34:57.653 --> 00:35:00.610
Canadian delegate to the League of Nations.

00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:04.385
Yeah, she died 1965 at 97 years old.

00:35:04.385 --> 00:35:16.489
Almost 80 years later, in October 2009, the Senate decided to honor the famous five by naming them the Canada's first honorary senators.

00:35:16.489 --> 00:35:17.751
Posthumously.

00:35:17.751 --> 00:35:23.547
That is the second half of the Lindsay Sear the famous five and the person's case story.

00:35:25.135 --> 00:35:26.641
So are we done with Lindsay Sear?

00:35:27.061 --> 00:35:27.925
We're done with Lizzie Sear.

00:35:27.925 --> 00:35:29.119
She was the catalyst.

00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:35.467
Oh, she was a catalyst because she was not considered a person and the um?

00:35:35.467 --> 00:35:40.980
The lawyer, Cameron, said that the magistrate shouldn't meet a magistrate because she was a woman.

00:35:42.115 --> 00:35:44.628
Well, okay, said that the magistrate shouldn't be a magistrate because she was a woman.

00:35:44.628 --> 00:35:50.586
Well, okay, you did a really good job at building this up in the beginning did I pull the rug from out underneath your feet?

00:35:50.586 --> 00:35:52.518
Yeah, I kind of fucking hate these people.

00:35:52.518 --> 00:35:54.061
Now fuck them.

00:35:56.106 --> 00:36:03.458
Fuck the five seriously it's like you can do all the right things and then this one thing you just oh well, and it's not.

00:36:03.498 --> 00:36:05.782
It's like, who are they to say?

00:36:05.782 --> 00:36:20.786
Like no, you can't breathe anymore, let's you, let's you use some eugenics yeah let's uh sterilize you and like I get, maybe to a degree, what they were trying to go, but then who are they to fucking say?

00:36:20.786 --> 00:36:22.472
Isn't that nuts?

00:36:22.472 --> 00:36:27.503
I mean, you're finally a person, don't be a dick seriously.

00:36:27.523 --> 00:36:38.597
You're finally a person and you're limiting the rights of these other people minded people yeah, because stupid and that's my point it's like cool, look what you did.

00:36:38.597 --> 00:36:38.838
You.

00:36:38.838 --> 00:36:40.585
You made a great movement for women.

00:36:40.585 --> 00:36:42.030
You're now people.

00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:54.061
Thank God, I don't know what you were before, but yet let's I don't know like they were playing God in a way, because they were just trying to get more power.

00:36:54.061 --> 00:36:55.605
It seemed to a degree.

00:36:55.605 --> 00:37:03.048
I know that's not really a straight line there, but now let's use that power to be like you can breed.

00:37:03.048 --> 00:37:06.719
You're a thoroughbred yeah you can't breed.

00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:07.902
It's like fuck you.

00:37:08.061 --> 00:37:14.402
Yeah, they're very contradictory, very yeah that's why it's like you built them up, like yeah, yeah this uplifting story.

00:37:14.402 --> 00:37:18.621
Awesome women fuck these people, good lord.

00:37:18.621 --> 00:37:36.909
And the fact that it lasted till 1972, yeah, that's awful, that's terrible, I mean seriously penny's cleaning her daughter bonnie yeah that's super sweet so how do you feel about the pink drink in the giant tea mug?

00:37:37.516 --> 00:37:40.666
it was delicious yeah, it actually wasn't bad.

00:37:40.666 --> 00:37:41.951
It was a nice little treat.

00:37:41.951 --> 00:37:50.143
It was a little different from what we normally do called you're making me happy yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, thank you, seagram's, I did escape.

00:37:50.143 --> 00:37:56.186
I did escape alright.

00:37:56.186 --> 00:38:01.003
Well, I'm glad you liked it and I'm glad you have opinions about these women now.

00:38:02.907 --> 00:38:07.824
I am all for what they were doing in the beginning in the beginning, not so much in the end, not so much in the end.

00:38:07.824 --> 00:38:31.500
Again, yeah, it's just, it's just wild to think that like they had all these good ideas and like let's advance women standing in society, basically, and then they fucking had to, in my opinion, tarnish a little bit what they did by like, hey, we should probably start sterilizing people because we think we should yeah, all women are persons, except for you.

00:38:31.539 --> 00:38:34.545
For you, because you're feeble-minded in my eyes.

00:38:34.905 --> 00:38:35.947
Yeah, or whatever.

00:38:36.009 --> 00:38:44.570
I mean good lord yeah, they had some controversy follow them, that's for sure, but of course they have statues for them.

00:38:45.114 --> 00:38:48.583
Well, and they posthumously got awarded a.

00:38:48.804 --> 00:38:50.148
Senate seat or whatever.

00:38:51.175 --> 00:39:02.849
I mean, I feel like we should write a strongly worded email and get that revoked right away For all those poor people 2,800 people from was it 30 something to 72?

00:39:02.849 --> 00:39:04.257
I don't remember the front year.

00:39:04.418 --> 00:39:05.240
I don't remember the front year.

00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:05.862
It doesn't matter.

00:39:05.963 --> 00:39:06.905
But yeah to 72.

00:39:07.065 --> 00:39:17.284
Yeah, 2,800 people were sterilized because they thought and obviously most of them were dead by that time by 72, but all of them were dead by 72.

00:39:17.284 --> 00:39:20.541
But fuck, that's just.

00:39:21.083 --> 00:39:32.099
I don't know why it's irritating me so much because I I kind of like I said, and that's why I think it's just like caught me off guard because you're like building up, I'm like, yeah, go go.

00:39:32.139 --> 00:39:32.561
These women.

00:39:32.561 --> 00:39:41.768
They're doing great things for all these people and that are now persons, and I'm going to start referring to women as person, on their behalf.

00:39:41.768 --> 00:39:46.418
Hey the famous five said I could, but anyways.

00:39:47.298 --> 00:39:50.021
So I think we have some time for an idiom.

00:39:50.021 --> 00:39:51.704
I would love to learn one from you.

00:39:51.844 --> 00:39:56.688
Yeah, let's figure one out, Okay.

00:39:56.688 --> 00:40:05.021
So the first idiom I'm going to do today, because the reason being I meant I said one of these and I was.

00:40:05.021 --> 00:40:09.438
I was hoping you might catch it, but I'm sure I caught it, didn't say anything.

00:40:09.438 --> 00:40:11.152
You might have, but I'm not sure.

00:40:11.152 --> 00:40:12.235
If you did Doesn't matter.

00:40:12.916 --> 00:40:13.438
Can I guess?

00:40:13.438 --> 00:40:14.541
Yeah, what my whistle?

00:40:14.961 --> 00:40:17.737
No, oh, I said that one during this episode.

00:40:17.737 --> 00:40:23.731
Yes, this one is, I said was it I during this episode?

00:40:23.731 --> 00:40:24.913
Yes, um, this one is, I said, was it?

00:40:24.913 --> 00:40:25.114
I guess?

00:40:25.114 --> 00:40:26.876
I guess I don't remember which one I said it in.

00:40:26.876 --> 00:40:28.099
Was it elizabeth, or was it uh, something else?

00:40:28.099 --> 00:40:29.021
Uh, uh, cut to the quick.

00:40:29.021 --> 00:40:30.465
Oh, yes, yeah.

00:40:30.465 --> 00:40:42.237
So the phrase cut to the quick comes from the idea of cutting through the dead skin to reach the sensitive living tissue underneath oh, oh, yeah, okay yeah.

00:40:42.717 --> 00:41:04.826
Okay, the word quick in this context is an archaic term that means alive or living, no kidding, because like if you ever had a dog and like you cut their fingernail even cats too, yeah, like that's like when you cut the quick it's like it hurts, it's the living tissue inside the nail, basically yeah.

00:41:06.552 --> 00:41:10.880
Yeah, so it says Zadium, cut to the quick, has a vivid and somewhat painful origin.

00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:19.454
Here's how it came to be so quick as living flesh, like we just said.

00:41:19.454 --> 00:41:24.869
The word quick in this context refers to the sensitive living flesh located at the base of your fingernails and toenails.

00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:32.242
So especially in animals like that, um, it's the part that hurts if you trim your nails too short, like, have you ever cut your fingernail too short?

00:41:32.242 --> 00:41:32.903
Oh, yes, it hurts my son.

00:41:32.903 --> 00:41:37.121
And then you like keep like hitting it on stuff and it like separates, oh constantly.

00:41:37.202 --> 00:41:37.764
It's the worst.

00:41:37.764 --> 00:41:43.733
My son, xavier, hates getting his nails cut oh, because of that reason yeah, because he always says I cut them too short.

00:41:43.733 --> 00:41:48.635
Oh, but I'm like, dude, your nails are disgusting, we got to cut so anyways.

00:41:48.635 --> 00:41:57.735
Um, so the literal meaning is the phrase originally had a meaning meaning like referring to the act of physically cutting into the sensitive area.

00:41:57.815 --> 00:42:00.139
Basically, okay that's what it's saying.

00:42:00.139 --> 00:42:06.213
Um, over time the phrase evolved to take on a metaphorical meaning.

00:42:06.213 --> 00:42:15.742
Because cutting to the quick is a painful experience idiom came to be used to describe emotional pain or hurt that is deep and piercing.

00:42:15.742 --> 00:42:24.530
So basically, you know whenever you do that you can kind of relate it to any type of painful like situation.

00:42:24.530 --> 00:42:25.934
Kind of you cut me to the quick.

00:42:26.496 --> 00:42:26.717
Oh OK.

00:42:26.989 --> 00:42:30.521
You basically got me into the living flesh, is what they're saying.

00:42:31.190 --> 00:42:34.521
I kind of like, in that kind of phrasing, you cut me to the quick.

00:42:34.521 --> 00:42:37.976
Yeah, I kind of would assume it as you beat me to it.

00:42:39.139 --> 00:42:42.137
I can see what you mean, yeah, but knowing that like what that mean.

00:42:42.237 --> 00:42:45.530
Yeah, but knowing that, like what that is, does that make a little more sense, then it does Okay.

00:42:45.771 --> 00:42:50.402
So the metaphorical use of cut to the quick can be traced back to the 16th century.

00:42:50.402 --> 00:42:58.836
It appeared in Sir Thomas More's Utopia in 1551, where he used it to describe the extent of exploitation.

00:42:58.836 --> 00:43:00.478
He used it to describe the extent of exploitation.

00:43:00.478 --> 00:43:15.340
So while the phrase might sound a bit harsh, it effectively captures the feeling of being deeply hurt or wounded, just like the pain of cutting into that sensitive flesh beneath your nails Super sensitive I never associated it with human nails.

00:43:15.340 --> 00:43:23.472
I guess I know what it means now and I get it nowadays.

00:43:23.492 --> 00:43:28.429
But like when, I was younger I always just knew it of being like into a dog or cat toenail, because have you ever seen one of your cats like shed their outer?

00:43:28.429 --> 00:43:32.581
Yeah nail if you will yeah because it keeps growing.

00:43:32.581 --> 00:43:38.454
Yeah, and like, well, you know my cat wicket, I have been trying to fix her nails.

00:43:38.454 --> 00:43:44.525
They've been growing so long that they're curling up into her pads, poor baby.

00:43:44.750 --> 00:43:46.978
But I'm afraid to cut to the quick.

00:43:46.978 --> 00:43:54.141
So it's kind of funny because, yeah, but anyways that, and I also mentioned it in a recent episode.

00:43:54.141 --> 00:44:02.079
So the second idiom I have, because we're talking about women finally being able to be persons.

00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.490
I just thought this was kind of funny.

00:44:04.490 --> 00:44:06.735
It's really has no connection.

00:44:06.735 --> 00:44:17.018
Okay, uh, plain jane, um, so plain meaning the word.

00:44:17.018 --> 00:44:31.269
The word plain has been used to describe someone of unadorned or simple appearance since the late 14th century wow jane has been a very common given name for girls throughout history.

00:44:31.469 --> 00:44:35.619
Yes, it's kind of like john smith for men, basically right in a way right um.

00:44:35.619 --> 00:44:42.019
The earliest known use of the phrase plain jane is from 1912, in the writing of compton mckenzie.

00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:45.552
Not familiar with their work um.

00:44:46.554 --> 00:44:56.576
Some people believe the phrase might have been influenced by jane seymour oh, henry the eighth wife the third wife died of childbed fever.

00:44:57.416 --> 00:45:03.284
Listen to our origin of weird story on Ignaz Semmelweis.

00:45:03.304 --> 00:45:03.565
Yes.

00:45:05.333 --> 00:45:06.297
Come on back full circle.

00:45:06.358 --> 00:45:08.255
folks See, this is why we do shit.

00:45:08.255 --> 00:45:08.938
It's great.

00:45:08.938 --> 00:45:18.545
The third wife of Henry the King, the wife of King Henry the Ace, sorry who was considered less conventionally beautiful than his other wives.

00:45:18.545 --> 00:45:21.679
However, there's no concrete evidence to support this.

00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:24.552
That's all you're saying.

00:45:24.612 --> 00:45:24.813
Right.

00:45:25.112 --> 00:45:33.257
The phrase likely gained popularity in the early 20th century possibly due to its simple and memorable nature.

00:45:33.257 --> 00:45:35.041
I mean, it's pretty easy, Plain Jane.

00:45:35.041 --> 00:45:37.195
You've heard that most of your life, right?

00:45:37.195 --> 00:45:38.360
I mean, I know I have.

00:45:38.630 --> 00:45:39.534
What are you insinuating?

00:45:39.735 --> 00:45:40.338
You're old, but I'm older.

00:45:40.338 --> 00:45:42.126
I don't know Well, I thought you were insinuating you're old, but I'm older.

00:45:42.146 --> 00:45:49.052
I don't know well I thought you were insinuating that I was a plain j no, I said you've heard this, not because people called you that.

00:45:49.815 --> 00:45:57.800
Wow way to make it personal remember I was charismatic and feisty you're lucky, you're a person.

00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:02.639
I almost spit out my pink drink.

00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:03.601
Thanks, famous five.

00:46:03.601 --> 00:46:04.882
Let's go euthanize people.

00:46:04.882 --> 00:46:07.514
Oh wait, no, I didn't euthanize, sterilize people.

00:46:07.514 --> 00:46:10.239
Close, there's the word um.

00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:16.528
Basically, it's used to describe a girl or a woman who's considered ordinary or unremarkable in appearance.

00:46:16.688 --> 00:46:22.483
Yeah, it's like wow, that's a difference so my ex-husband's mom would call people like that homely.

00:46:23.911 --> 00:46:27.641
Yeah, that is another very common term for it.

00:46:27.641 --> 00:46:36.577
Basically, Thankfully she never called me that Thank God, but it often carries a slightly negative connotation, implying a lack of attractiveness or glamour.

00:46:36.577 --> 00:46:43.480
But obviously they don't know the exact origin.

00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:44.603
It remains uncertain.

00:46:44.603 --> 00:46:53.552
The combination of the common name Jane with the descriptive word plain created a phrase that has become a lasting part of our English language.

00:46:54.034 --> 00:46:54.536
Very nice.

00:46:56.012 --> 00:46:58.938
I feel like the famous five are probably plain Janes.

00:46:58.938 --> 00:47:01.960
Just kidding, I have no idea, I don't know.

00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:05.059
I'm still a little bitter about how cunty they were about that.

00:47:05.059 --> 00:47:07.777
Yeah, either way, maybe I shouldn't use that word.

00:47:09.369 --> 00:47:13.235
There's going to be a lot of microphone sounds, microphone.

00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:15.780
Well.

00:47:15.780 --> 00:47:19.164
I suppose, All right, buffoons.

00:47:19.164 --> 00:47:20.576
That's it for today's episode.

00:47:21.250 --> 00:47:24.434
Buckle up, because we've got another historical adventure waiting for you.

00:47:24.434 --> 00:47:32.505
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00:47:32.706 --> 00:47:34.070
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00:47:34.070 --> 00:47:38.780
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00:47:38.780 --> 00:47:42.797
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